TWA could never get the same type out of its 88's and 717's.

 

Excellent post. One of the more frustrating things on these sales jobs from the organization "representing" us...you get the feeling they are being coached on what to say by management and their PR consultants.

 

Guessed wrong boy scout. I've been doing this airline rodeo for longer than you. Even have worked in ALPA and seen how other MEC's are run.

I understand that all it takes is 50% + 1.

I also back ALPA and not DPA. I've made that clear.

But myself and many others have ALPA on the short leash.

Oh, and I have more than one item that I'd vote no for. I have listed them here before.

I have seen your types before T. Fearful and overwrought with apprehension. They have past the apex of their airline career and are headed toward the twilight of it. In your case,this is probably the only job outside of working for Uncle Sam that you have ever had which is further limiting. Folks like this are traditionally the epitome of single issue voters. They want the $ now, quick before more years slip past and retirement arrives.

Scope, work rules, reserve, sick leave, disability, medical coverage.... won't be around long enough to be bothered with that.

 

i did a little bit of fixin to your post

 

From the March CPO newsletter:
[indent]An MD-88 or MD-90 will be modified with the ISS Flat Panel Display System, dual GPS and dual FMS by the end of 2012. This fleet initiative has been added to the Capital Expenditure Plan (CapEx) for 2013-2017 and awaits funding.
• The simulator relocation from MSP to ATL continues ahead of schedule with the initial 757 and 320 sims close to FAA re-certification in ATL. The remain- ing DC-9 sim in MSP will be moved to ATL later this fall.[/quote]

 

Seriously guys....

Consider the pace of the communications we normally get. Now all of a sudden the MEC Chair decides to drop this in our lap, laced with innuendo and subtext.

Notice the absence of the normal cheerleaders, Alfa and Slow. Got to coordinate their talking points before the big push comes.

The last time I saw a MEC letter like this, we took another %28 PAY CUT (over an above the cut we took in our "bridge agreement"), untold loss of work rules and QoL, AND THE LOSS OF THE 76 SEATERS.

That letter had EXACTLY the same subtext as this one did. Guys who could read between the lines were howling about the 76 seaters, and the fNWA cheerleaders said the same thing "wait until you see it! Don't worry so much", but the TA dropped on them, like a huge turd, 10 days later.

Get ready. It's coming.

Nu

 

Weeeel if I knew how to post pictures, I would have posted of what is available to quickly glance at the pool here in ANC. I would have forever been banned from this website though.

 

Hi tsquare,
I'll try to respond as best as I can. I agree almost entirely with the first part of your post. There are a lot of factors working against the piloting profession, but falling for the same tricks again and again is intolerable. Simply put, negotiating further scope erosion given our current financial climate would be extremely short sighted. In fact a disaster. Delta has, in it's 80+ year history never made more money, and during this time we sell more delta pilot jobs?

I've been an ALPA negotiator myself and have a little over 2 years experience on ALPA's board of directors. From my vantage point,as an outsider of course, it looks like the negotiating committee is being out maneuvered rhetorically. Ill try my best to explain. The company is presenting a very smart proposal on their end. Their smart enough to realize that they can use short term greed to get what they want in the end. They have a master plan and our negotiators SHOULD have known what they were after.

Its like chess....you look multiple moves down the road and your thinking of what your opponent will do.....you already know your own reaction to what their move will be. Their goal is to outsource everything under the sun and have low pilot pay. So ask yourself....how would you do that if you were the manager?

If I was on the other side of the table I would offer a pay raise and a small scope concession. Offer a good raise! Cloud their judgement. I need to get as close as I can on scope to those Boeing 737's and A-320's. I'll sell them on the "ratio" factor for now....I'll use the numbers to lie and mask my true intentions. They'll also feel like good employees for "helping" me get rid of those pesky 50 seaters. What those pilots don't realize is that they've sold, yet again something that they'll never have the power to recapture...scope...their own jobs. In turn I've given them something that blows like the wind.....a pay rate. Unlike the pilots, I'm looking 15-20 years down the road. These chumps are just looking at the next 5 years tops! Once things go south financially in 2018 I can take back that pay rate and I will have achieved everything I wanted. In fact what I'm really after is their queen.....those 737's and A320's. Once I have that it will represent over 80% of the total airline. It's only a matter of time until checkmate. Times become tough....I simply lock out the 777 pilots who are too small in number to defend themselves and I hire easy replacements =Checkmate

Tsquare....I'm long winded but that's what our negotiators should have seen sitting down at the table. In fact they should be smart enough to realize the exact opposite is what we need. Scope has to come first. No scope no power. If ALPA was truly interested in restoring pay they would realize that scope has to come first, but they've created their own monster because now they can't do that. IE dual representation conflict and now mainline pilots that want instant gratification. What would the pilots say to no raises for 10 years because we have to undo all off your past screw ups? Wouldn't go well for the representation.

Ok t square. There it is.

 

I doubt it's a matter of how smart they are. My guess it's a more a matter of what their motivations are. Why would DALPA negotiators cave on scope?

 

Excellent post sink r8
Fly2002