Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-17-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I agree with you. However, what concerns WS about the refinery is that ConocoPhillips, whose expertise is refining oil, couldn't produce a profit. And now DAL, whose core business is not refining oil, is telling the market they can buy, contract it out, and turn a profit/lower the price of jet fuel.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
05-17-2012, 12:32 PM
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About the 717... Before more undergarments are needlesslessly trashed... Don't you think it's possible to distinguish between actual mainline fleet and rumored fleet when establishing ratios????
05-17-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I agree with you. However, what concerns WS about the refinery is that ConocoPhillips, whose expertise is refining oil, couldn't produce a profit. And now DAL, whose core business is not refining oil, is telling the market they can buy, contract it out, and turn a profit/lower the price of jet fuel.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
What if, PSX's problem with that refinery was not the actual refining process, but rather the transportation of that finished product. Because transportation prices are so volatile (for whatever reason) that they couldn't count on consistency for that transportation. So... PSX decides to go out and buy Joe's tanker fleet so that they can control the costs of that part of the business.
Now Joe.. who's core business is transporting goods around the world, was having trouble because pipeline transportation prices were cutting too hard into his business. He just couldn't make it work. So here comes PSX who is in the refining business, but needs Joe's services to move product. They (PSX) don't necessarily care whether the trucking business turns a profit, but rather just control the cost of that part of the business.. so they decide to make Joe an offer for his fleet. They hire all his drivers, rebuild the engines and tanks on the tankers so that they can carry extra fuel.. etc. They tell American Pipeline Corporation to get bent, that they now have a better way to move their product. Wall Street goes nuts because what on earth does a refining company know about driving trucks??
Now PSX has just brought into their control, a piece of the puzzle that heretofore was NOT in their control yet was so vital to their bottom line so as to render their bottom line flirting with red ink, and fighting against it's competition where they might be at a disadvantage. They aren't driving trucks... they aren't scheduling or maintaining trucks, but they have cut out the middleman.. American Pipeline Corporation. Joe was retained as CEO of the trucking division, and all his drivers are now working for PSX. (They get discounted gasoline for their POVs too
)How would this scenario be any different?
05-17-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I agree with you. However, what concerns WS about the refinery is that ConocoPhillips, whose expertise is refining oil, couldn't produce a profit. And now DAL, whose core business is not refining oil, is telling the market they can buy, contract it out, and turn a profit/lower the price of jet fuel.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
Does DAL management know something that the oil refining experts don't?
That is the $250 million question.
If we trade our future position, swapping inventory supplies, then we reduce transportation expenses dramatically. If this is the theorized plan, we may be on to something.
05-17-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
I wonder how much cost goes into transportating each barrel of oil to the consumer, and how much of that cost is taken out of the profit.
If we trade our future position, swapping inventory supplies, then we reduce transportation expenses dramatically. If this is the theorized plan, we may be on to something.
If we trade our future position, swapping inventory supplies, then we reduce transportation expenses dramatically. If this is the theorized plan, we may be on to something.
05-17-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by get there itis
I've seen worse.
Do you disagree with my logic?
Do you disagree with my logic?
Good for us (pilots) potentially because we had other options.. and great for us (DAL) because it keeps SWAs costs on an upward trajectory. win win.
05-17-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
I wonder how much cost goes into transportating each barrel of oil to the consumer, and how much of that cost is taken out of the profit.
If we trade our future position, swapping inventory supplies, then we reduce transportation expenses dramatically. If this is the theorized plan, we may be on to something.
If we trade our future position, swapping inventory supplies, then we reduce transportation expenses dramatically. If this is the theorized plan, we may be on to something.
05-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Delta down 8%. Market selling off on news of Delta's continued capacity cuts. Notice we have moved down through the 90 day trend line.
Investors are getting into that same funk I caught last Fall. "Where is the bottom of these capacity cuts? "
I've been expecting the answer to be here with a turn around in the Spring of 2013. But, Delta management seems to be taking another bite which both seems greedy and lacking in confidence.
Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered. Notice in one afternoon we broke a really nice 90 day trend line. There will be some value shoppers come in. After all we are below the price some Directors recently bought shares (and I'm not bearish on DAL. Just pointing out the market is tired of capacity doom & gloom).
Those morons at J P Morgan are hurting the overall market. Their derivatives losses are now going over 3 Billion with no bottom in sight since no one wants to help them undo their garbage bets. From a systemic risk standpoint, we are really no better off than we were in 2007-2008.
Investors are getting into that same funk I caught last Fall. "Where is the bottom of these capacity cuts? "
I've been expecting the answer to be here with a turn around in the Spring of 2013. But, Delta management seems to be taking another bite which both seems greedy and lacking in confidence.
Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered. Notice in one afternoon we broke a really nice 90 day trend line. There will be some value shoppers come in. After all we are below the price some Directors recently bought shares (and I'm not bearish on DAL. Just pointing out the market is tired of capacity doom & gloom).
Those morons at J P Morgan are hurting the overall market. Their derivatives losses are now going over 3 Billion with no bottom in sight since no one wants to help them undo their garbage bets. From a systemic risk standpoint, we are really no better off than we were in 2007-2008.
Thanks Ed. Time to think of something new.
05-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tsquare
You're right.. that IS the question. Let's play a little game though.
What if, PSX's problem with that refinery was not the actual refining process, but rather the transportation of that finished product. Because transportation prices are so volatile (for whatever reason) that they couldn't count on consistency for that transportation. So... PSX decides to go out and buy Joe's tanker fleet so that they can control the costs of that part of the business.
Now Joe.. who's core business is transporting goods around the world, was having trouble because pipeline transportation prices were cutting too hard into his business. He just couldn't make it work. So here comes PSX who is in the refining business, but needs Joe's services to move product. They (PSX) don't necessarily care whether the trucking business turns a profit, but rather just control the cost of that part of the business.. so they decide to make Joe an offer for his fleet. They hire all his drivers, rebuild the engines and tanks on the tankers so that they can carry extra fuel.. etc. They tell American Pipeline Corporation to get bent, that they now have a better way to move their product. Wall Street goes nuts because what on earth does a refining company know about driving trucks??
Now PSX has just brought into their control, a piece of the puzzle that heretofore was NOT in their control yet was so vital to their bottom line so as to render their bottom line flirting with red ink, and fighting against it's competition where they might be at a disadvantage. They aren't driving trucks... they aren't scheduling or maintaining trucks, but they have cut out the middleman.. American Pipeline Corporation. Joe was retained as CEO of the trucking division, and all his drivers are now working for PSX. (They get discounted gasoline for their POVs too)
How would this scenario be any different?
What if, PSX's problem with that refinery was not the actual refining process, but rather the transportation of that finished product. Because transportation prices are so volatile (for whatever reason) that they couldn't count on consistency for that transportation. So... PSX decides to go out and buy Joe's tanker fleet so that they can control the costs of that part of the business.
Now Joe.. who's core business is transporting goods around the world, was having trouble because pipeline transportation prices were cutting too hard into his business. He just couldn't make it work. So here comes PSX who is in the refining business, but needs Joe's services to move product. They (PSX) don't necessarily care whether the trucking business turns a profit, but rather just control the cost of that part of the business.. so they decide to make Joe an offer for his fleet. They hire all his drivers, rebuild the engines and tanks on the tankers so that they can carry extra fuel.. etc. They tell American Pipeline Corporation to get bent, that they now have a better way to move their product. Wall Street goes nuts because what on earth does a refining company know about driving trucks??
Now PSX has just brought into their control, a piece of the puzzle that heretofore was NOT in their control yet was so vital to their bottom line so as to render their bottom line flirting with red ink, and fighting against it's competition where they might be at a disadvantage. They aren't driving trucks... they aren't scheduling or maintaining trucks, but they have cut out the middleman.. American Pipeline Corporation. Joe was retained as CEO of the trucking division, and all his drivers are now working for PSX. (They get discounted gasoline for their POVs too
)How would this scenario be any different?
In your example, you didn't say PSX bought a trucking company that didn't have any drivers, dispatchers, mechanics and all of their trucks needed expensive upgrades to be legal, as well as running on the most expensive fuel.
05-17-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Airline Stocks Tumble After Delta Air Lines Trims Capacity More Than Expected DAL UAL RYAAY - Investors.com
Thanks Ed. Time to think of something new.
Thanks Ed. Time to think of something new.
Delta CEO Anderson sells $1.92M in company stock - Atlanta Business Chronicle
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