Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 1719502)

They are not inconsistent. They are both "at risk" but one (profit sharing) is based solely on the company's financial performance. The others (stock and options) are based in part on what the market thinks of the company's performance.

While the market is very rational in the long term, it can be very irrational in the short term. That is the problem with stock options. Not only do they have a limited shelf life, thus more subject to the silly short term fluctuations of the market, but you also have to be right not only about the predicted direction of a stock price, but also the magnitude of the direction.

Options can be rolled. Just today I rolled a few AAPL options when the stock took a hit and netted a little beer money and strengthened my position. That is why I was saying that if they are placed in a trading account (preferably one of my choosing) and immediately available to me, I would be all over options. If I have to wait.. not interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orvil (Post 1719280)

If that happened, DALPA would hold back the stock, hire someone to try to sell the stock as a block, wait for the price to go to a historic low before releasing the stock.... Nah, that would never happen.

Let's just stay away from stock. Put it in my paycheck every month, month in, month out. Let Dick and Eddie play that game.

(I thought the B/S was a pretty good descriptor, too:D)

We have 850 million shares outstanding. I am not worried about that kind of manipulation at all.... And I certainly think your overly dramatic characterization of how dALPA (which at that point should not handle any of the transactions) would act is silly. For the most part I agree with you about stock vs paycheck pay, but it is not an automatic no from me. I find options much more intriguing, but again it would depend on the structure. If there is any waiting period, deal's dead.

Rate 1 thru 6 which you desire most:

- A solid kick square in the nuts
- A sucker punch to the gut
- A little league ball player taking a bat to your back
- A 90 mph slapshot in the teeth
- A good *****-slap across the face
- Being a prison ***** for a month

Result:
Our contract survey showed 63% of you preferred to be *****-slapped! Lets be sure to get that in C2015.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 1719538)

^^^^^^ LMAO!!! THat is what I thought with the survey..

TEN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1719479)

ALPA's definitely not the best choice, but the fact is...it's currently our only choice. My goal (probably futile) is to make them better by fighting the complete control of information being attempted by the Moak disciples. Get as much factual information out there as possible, then let Delta pilots decide.

Carl

Cracked the code Herr Spackler. :D

When I got this account years ago, it was in a fit of disbelief of how many were here buying the carefully orchestrated talking points designed to effectively manage our expectations.

Thus, I chose the screen name TheManager as I contemplated how I would not sit back and allow a blatantly emotionalized propaganda campaign to run unchecked by "reManaging" those expectations.

Again, ALPA is the only choice. DPA died when TC couldn't let go at the critical mass and step back to allow proper adult supervision.

Regardless, concerning ALPA: Time to change the message and influence the structure. Resist the bull turd managing of expectations and use the voting process to R&R reps and most importantly change the policy manual to truly make bottom up changes.

Web boards, email, text, twitter, and FB are powerful organizing and communications tools. Remember a little something called Arab Spring? Just look how quickly they choked on the CDOs they tried to slip past the pilots.

And I do mean slip past. The fine gentleman who was working as one of the architects within the group that was putting them together, FOR MONTHS! told us that they were sworn to secrecy and not allowed to discuss what they where doing for LOA 117 regarding CDOs.

He was aghast when we explained why we were against them as this had been his baby we deemed ugly. Got him to admit that they had a giant optics problem with them and a down right shameful lack of communications, that had they been forthright with, might have seen them adopted.

I think he went a little to far right after that when he alluded that CDO 2.0 is currently being developed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_45_cover.jpg

Wasn't really shocked. Are any of you? Just ask yourself who benefits the most from them ;). Just swallow. They are good for you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1719479)

Carl, you know I support your style of thinking and wish more of my coworkers were like you. But...

As far as an alternative organization, I am here to tell you, if humans are involved ; ego, politics and greed will come into play. This is the nature of most humans. To be looked up at. To seek approval. To have power. It is built in our genes. Survival of the fittest. Most people think: what is good for them, is good for everybody..Cough Cough Pelosi and Franke:D

Trust me, a new organization will be the answer to all our problems: maybe for a year or two. Then the "same" people will take control and create the CLUB.

We need guys like you to shake things up.. Carl is the Icahn of Dalpa!

Respectfully,

TEN

It's simply amazing how much DALPA's carefully crafted survey wording and format will lead us right where they want us to be: Concessions. With the company making record profits.

I sure hope we don't allow ourselves to get steamrolled by the company/DALPA tagteam again on C15.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1719424)

Of course you edit my original post where I explain why I can't release the costing spreadsheets. Just to reiterate, I produced the spreadsheet for the MEC and thus they control its release not me.

I did no such thing Alfa. I quote your exact words and in context. As I said, your explanation is an excuse. You released one bit of data from the costing sheets, you just don't want to release the rest. But you're not alone...neither does DALPA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1719424)

The $1 billion number was released as soon as C2012 was sent to the membership. Using the slightly more exact number doesn't change anything other than to try to demonstrate that $1 billion wasn't some made up number. No doors were opened counselor.

That's your excuse and you're sticking to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1719424)

As I said before, no matter what I release you will claim it is rigged, so why should I respond to your bullying.

You're right that you have very little credibility with me, but if you would release the costing data, I could at least begin to verify it. And pointed discussion using your own words isn't bullying Alfa. It's an attempt at fact finding.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1719436)

I agree that there are probably more comprehensive ways to explore many of the issues in the survey. But how do you do that without creating something that's 1000 questions long that way too few of us would likely complete?

Easy:

1. Should C2015 include CDO's? YES. NO.

And it makes the survey shorter. ;)

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1719454)

I don't like to gratuitously criticize the work of others, but in this case I have to agree with you. I felt that I was being taken for a moron.

One of the questions that always has everyone foaming at the mouth is % pay increases. While there is a good question at the very end asking what our total cost increase should be, the questions on pay increases only address the initial increase, and only in the context of TVM.

It seems to me we used to be asked what we wanted to see throughout the contract. I understand that the timing of the initial increase matters, but then again, it's not just the initial increase that tells the story.

For example, I think 12% is a good initial number, but only if it's something like 12/8/8/7 AND the other sections are strengthened substantially. 12/5/5/5, not good enough. 12/0/0/0... DOA.

So even on this most basic of points of gauging pay expectations, the survey fails.

This is twice now in one day...but Sink r8 has nailed it.

Carl