Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1799147)

This is exactly how c12 started. We thought we had leverage, and we did until dalpa ****ed it away. Next thing you know, we rushed into 4833 with a profit sharing giveback (plus other significant concessions).

I hope we aren't stupid enough to fall for it again.

Let's take our time and enjoy the massive profit sharing check we stand to earn in 2015.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1799574)

The remaining 0-2.5B of PTIX amount of 10% is a fixed dollar amount:

2.5B x 10% = $250,000,000

The "pilot share" is roughly 1/3. So say the pilot share is $82,350,000.

The cost of 1% on the pilot pay tables is about $23,000,000.

So AFTER we negotiate new acceptable pay raises, would the membership be willing to convert the rest of the 0-2.5B into additional numbers on the pay chart?

$82.35M / 23M = 3.58%

So, AFTER the negotiated (and past due) increases, add ANOTHER 3.58% in pay table bumps and a new PS plan of 0% of 0-2.5B and 20% of everything above 2.5B?

With NO changes, theoretically we get 15% as of day one and 4% for the next three years in regular negotiations, that portion of the PS is worth:
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2016
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2017
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2018
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2019
Total of $329.4 million.

If it is converted into the rate tables, it is worth:

$94.70 mil (for pilots) in 2016
$98.49 mil (for pilots) in 2017
$102.43 mil(for pilots) in 2018
$106.53 mil(for pilots) in 2019
Total of $402.15 million

Difference of $72.75 Million dollars in 4 years, and more each year thereafter.

What would you vote to do as an MEC member?

I don't think we should ever cede the "20% of infinity" number, that can't be costed, but below infinity it is a fixed number. That is math.

We need to decide what is more valuable, and where that line is.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1799574)

So, AFTER the negotiated (and past due) increases, add ANOTHER 3.58% in pay table bumps and a new PS plan of 0% of 0-2.5B and 20% of everything above 2.5B?

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1799440)

Just a quick comment about "openers" being made public.

Doing that is a recent phenomenon that has been brought about by popular demand. The whole exercise is more about public relations than about negotiations.

There's the actual negotiations and then there's the public "openers".
The two things are nearly unrelated these days.

If either side decides to publish something you can be sure it will be a meaningless document. If you're expecting to see detailed negotiating positions you are going to be deeply disappointed.

ie => DALPA will open for "substantial improvements to pay and benefits".

They're not going to publish numbers.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1799523)

Oberon, my man...you may be the only guy anywhere on this forum that won't acknowlege that an early contract will require PS concessions by us.

Have you talked to your reps and asked them?

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1799591)

The trick is getting those past due increases first and then adding the 3.58%.

Doing it that way will make our "raise" look too big for Wall Street and the other employee groups. The fact that we are funding our own pay raise would go unnoticed. I highly doubt we would get it all. We'd get something less.

Better to leave the profit sharing right where it is.

Every increase in our "compensation" that doesn't involve the raw Section 3 rates is a good thing.
Make training and vacation pay more. Increase retirement contributions. Lower medical premiums. Bump the int'l override. Increase per diem. Improve the duty rigs. Bring back night pay. Holiday pay, etc. etc. etc.

Our Section 3 increase will be the headline. All that other stuff gets by under the radar.

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1799611)

I did. My reps have told me C2015 will NOT be cost neutral. Just like the 117 Letter, C2015 will add to Delta's cost, and will have big gains to pilot earnings. If your reps are telling you something different, maybe you could post it here? It would be nice to know if your reps are out of touch.

I don't care about PS as much as I care about the size of my W2. If PS were to go to 0, but I see a bigger number on my 2016 W2, I'll leave it to you to find some way to blame ALPA for the improvement.

Originally Posted by Rogue24 (Post 1799604)

How well did it work for APA to negotiate in public? That deal may pass because binding arbitration is a wild card, but they did not get what they wanted once they went public. Starting out with public negotiations is any oppositions dream.

DAL pilots like their company. Do you think negotiating publicly will be beneficial for more than feel good intangible result? Kind of like, "Yeah we got a lot less than we asked for but at least D-ALPA has some sort of spine." If anything its harder to negotiate in private with doing so publicly gets more pilots off your back, even if it effects the results.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1799574)

The remaining 0-2.5B of PTIX amount of 10% is a fixed dollar amount:

2.5B x 10% = $250,000,000

The "pilot share" is roughly 1/3. So say the pilot share is $82,350,000.

The cost of 1% on the pilot pay tables is about $23,000,000.

So AFTER we negotiate new acceptable pay raises, would the membership be willing to convert the rest of the 0-2.5B into additional numbers on the pay chart?

$82.35M / 23M = 3.58%

So, AFTER the negotiated (and past due) increases, add ANOTHER 3.58% in pay table bumps and a new PS plan of 0% of 0-2.5B and 20% of everything above 2.5B?
With NO changes, theoretically we get 15% as of day one and 4% for the next three years in regular negotiations, that portion of the PS is worth:
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2016
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2017
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2018
$82.35 mil (for pilots) in 2019
Total of $329.4 million.

If it is converted into the rate tables, it is worth:

$94.70 mil (for pilots) in 2016
$98.49 mil (for pilots) in 2017
$102.43 mil(for pilots) in 2018
$106.53 mil(for pilots) in 2019
Total of $402.15 million

Difference of $72.75 Million dollars in 4 years, and more each year thereafter.

What would you vote to do as an MEC member?

I don't think we should ever cede the "20% of infinity" number, that can't be costed, but below infinity it is a fixed number. That is math.

We need to decide what is more valuable, and where that line is.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1799635)

Our profit sharing will easily be 30% plus in 2016. So to increase your W2 we would need a 50% increase in hourly rates date of signing.

You are not paying attention.

Think RA is going to give us 50% date of signing?