Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1799652)

What profit would give us 30% profit share?

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1799611)

I did. My reps have told me C2015 will NOT be cost neutral

I don't care about PS as much as I care about the size of my W2. If PS were to go to 0, but I see a bigger number on my 2016 W2, I'll leave it to you to find some way to blame ALPA for the improvement.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1799675)

It was mentioned about a month ago, that Richard made the comment that in 2016, Delta 'might' make as much as $10Billion.

Want to guess what our profit sharing payout would be on that amount?

If $4B profits net us roughly 15%, then 2.5X that amount is 37%.

So how much of a 'raise' would you trade for that? Another 4,8,3,3? Spare me.

We would have made an additional $1.3 Billion in 2014 but for our fuel hedge losses.

I'm guessing by 2016 they -might- have the hedge thing sorted out...or not.

The point I'm trying to make is, WHY would you trade profit sharing at all?

RESTORE our PAY RATES and keep the profit sharing. When they came to us to save them from bankruptcy, they didn't ask for a pay cut OR our retirement plan, they took BOTH!

It's PAYBACK time! (It's actually LONG PAST payback time!)

We are STILL below 2004 pay rates! And our retirement funding SUCKS!

WAKE UP!

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1799685)

Of course in 2016 the profit might also be zero. Historically that's probably a far more likely number then 10 billion. I would also be willing to bet oil is in the 80 to 100 dollar range then. We are going to get killed by our hedges next year

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1799675)

It was mentioned about a month ago, that Richard made the comment that in 2016, Delta 'might' make as much as $10Billion.

Want to guess what our profit sharing payout would be on that amount?

If $4B profits net us roughly 15%, then 2.5X that amount is 37%.

If 4B gets us 15%, 10B would be much higher than 37% as the real money is made at the profits above 2.5B.

So how much of a 'raise' would you trade for that? Another 4,8,3,3? Spare me.

We would have made an additional $1.3 Billion in 2014 but for our fuel hedge losses.

I'm guessing by 2016 they -might- have the hedge thing sorted out...or not.

The point I'm trying to make is, WHY would you trade profit sharing at all?

RESTORE our PAY RATES and keep the profit sharing. When they came to us to save them from bankruptcy, they didn't ask for a pay cut OR our retirement plan, they took BOTH!

It's PAYBACK time! (It's actually LONG PAST payback time!)

We are STILL below 2004 pay rates! And our retirement funding SUCKS!

WAKE UP!

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1799685)

Of course in 2016 the profit might also be zero. Historically that's probably a far more likely number then 10 billion. I would also be willing to bet oil is in the 80 to 100 dollar range then. We are going to get killed by our hedges next year. american is projected to pay 30 cents a gallon less then us in 15. Combined with the billion dollars invested in the refinery between purchase, upgrades and quarterly losses fuel has not been a bright spot despite managements attempts to justify the purchase.

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 1799651)

If you are saying that we negotiate a hypothetical 15, 4, 4 then convert profit sharing for a 18.5, 7.5, 7.5 then I agree with you, however history is not on our side with that math.

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 1799651)

You can ask your reps and they will admit that they undersold profit sharing in C2012 and it turned out to be a 1:1. Basically you took it from one pot that you were going to get and put it in another and called it a raise.

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 1799651)

Yes I know that that raise is permanent, however do you really consider 3% a year a raise or a cost of living adjustment. Even the FA's got 4% at top of scale.

It will be interesting to see how these negotiations turn out. I'm expecting a lot since being here for the lost decade.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1799685)

Of course in 2016 the profit might also be zero. Historically that's probably a far more likely number then 10 billion. I would also be willing to bet oil is in the 80 to 100 dollar range then. We are going to get killed by our hedges next year. american is projected to pay 30 cents a gallon less then us in 15. Combined with the billion dollars invested in the refinery between purchase, upgrades and quarterly losses fuel has not been a bright spot despite managements attempts to justify the purchase.

Originally Posted by Rogue24 (Post 1799604)

How well did it work for APA to negotiate in public? That deal may pass because binding arbitration is a wild card, but they did not get what they wanted once they went public. Starting out with public negotiations is any oppositions dream.

DAL pilots like their company. Do you think negotiating publicly will be beneficial for more than feel good intangible result? Kind of like, "Yeah we got a lot less than we asked for but at least D-ALPA has some sort of spine." If anything its harder to negotiate in private with doing so publicly gets more pilots off your back, even if it effects the results.