Honestly, I hadn't thought of that. Good point. But I doubt it changes my conclusion by all that much.

First of all, I think I'm being generous with the $7 assumption for cockpit cost per flight segment per passenger. If my cost was $2.98 last year, and I did a lot of extra flying last year, then the average Captain is probably not a whole lot more than that. First Officers make approximately 60% of what a Captain makes? So if the average Captain at Delta is at, say, $3.50, and the average First Officer makes 60% of that... then that makes the total cost per flight segment per passenger $5.60. Of course, that assumes 2 pilots so that number would have to be adjusted up by some factor to account for those flights that have more than 2 pilots. In any case, I don't think $7 is far off. It might even be a little on the high side.

So make the metric "pilot cost per flight segment per passenger." I still don't think it significantly changes the conclusion. And that conclusion is that Delta can indeed afford to pay us at a level comparable in buying power to what they paid us throughout most of the 1980's, 1990's, and early 2000's. I don't have access to all the data. But the data I do have leads to what I think is a reasonable, common sense conclusion. Your mileage may vary.

I agree^^^^.

My point in that tirade is that they have no right to act as if the bankruptcy contracts harmed them. They can talk about "restoration" in an abstract sense, but it is extremely disingenuous to act as if they were harmed by events that occurred long before they were here. Akin to the reparations bullchit that goes on in Al Sharpton's world.

We all have a dog in the fight, and I want everybody involved. Just don't hold up something you had nothing to do with as some sort of rallying cry for YOUR betterment. Sorry if that doesn't fly on here...

I agree with you T. My post that you quoted was in response to Timbo's post were he told Oberon that he had no dog in the restoration fight since he was new. The only thing I've seen from Oberon about restoration has been stating that it wasn't a strategy in and of itself to achieve gains. I didn't see that as a reason to shut him down.

I am in 100% agreement that someone who wasn't around when something happened shouldn't be holding it up as something they endured or achieved. That's bullchit, as you put it. [emoji1]

And my post to Oberon, (which was none of your business by the way, but thanks for your valuable input) was in answer to some who were wondering why some people were upset that Oberon was talking about "Restoration". As T points out, he wasn't even here to experience the thrill of those losses, kind of funny that now he wants 'restoration'... to what?

For him, that's a job at Com Air.:rolleyes:

Did I miss something from Oberon? What I've read states clearly that he doesn't want to define our objective as restoration. Doesn't even want to mention it. Perfectly happy with DALPA's efforts to date. That doesn't add up to someone who "wants restoration."

I mean he might want it. I want to win the lottery. But I don't believe in throwing my money away on odds that are stacked so astronomically against... so I don't play the lottery. Which means winning the lottery is not my objective and there is no way I'm going to win it without playing.

I think that's what Oberon (and really the majority of our MEC) is saying. Sure, they'd love to have restoration. But they don't think it's possible so they aren't going for it. And THAT is the crux of our disagreement.

I've got a strategy to achieve Restoration:

1. Post a full financial accounting of the BILLIONS of dollars, yearly, since we took a 42% pay cut. Then chart that vs. today's earnings, and vs. Management's pay for the same 10 years past.

2. Track those dollars, vs. Delta's profits and debt reductions.

3. Account for the lost DB money, and non-funding of the Delta Pilot's DB going forward, vs. our DC plan money.

4. Start putting together info and videos from the Negotiating Committee about how much money the Delta Pilots have contributed over the past 10 years, to Save Delta. And where did the money come from for the Stock Buybacks and Dividends? Oh...yeah...from US!

What pizzes me and a lot of other Senior pilots off is, DALPA won't even MENTION the word, Restoration, never mind show the math on HOW MUCH MONEY the Pilots alone have been contributing to Delta's Record Earnings now, and for the past 10 years! And how much money our DC plan saves them, vs. our old DB plan, and crank up the Family Awareness meetings to get the troops riled up.

I'm not saying I want the DB plan reinstated, but I sure would LOVE to see the difference for the company funding that, vs. contributing 14% of pay rates that are still below 2001 levels. They are still on the hook for Billions in NW's Frozen DB pension liabilities, but they flushed the Delta (south) pilot's down the toilet. Where's the accounting for that?

5. Go to Wall Street and start telling them that before the next Billion Dollar Stock Buyback, or Billion in Dividends is distributed, the Biggest INVESTORS, who SAVED DELTA, want to be REPAID!! NOW!! And if we are NOT repaid, sh!t is going to start happening which WILL impact earnings.

Do any of you remember how we got our C2K pay rates in the first place???

Here's a hint; the MEC beat the RESTORATION drum loudly, for many months.

But this time around....

Complete silence, like the biggest pay and benefit cuts in the history of the industry, NEVER HAPPENED, all while the 3 Majors are now posting the highest earnings in the history of the industry!!

W. T. F. is WRONG with these MEC guys?

No goals, no plans, no strategy, NOTHING!

Fill out your survey....?

REALLY?

You mean to tell me they FORGOT what we gave up?

Or they 'lost' the 2012 surveys?

You wonder why DPA even exists?

That's why!

Without "Labor Risk", what do we have?

4-8-3-3.

Delta C2015
 

I must have missed his post where he expressed wanting restoration. That's my fault. If he did that, I agree that would be inappropriate for someone who was at Comair at the the time. Sorry Timbo.

The "none of your business" snarkyness on a public anonymous message board though. Really? [emoji107]

About as snarky as you jumping in where you don't belong. You get what you give.:rolleyes:

Wow. Now I don't belong here too. [emoji15]

I didn't think I was being snarky. My apologies.