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-   -   Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

Carl Spackler 04-03-2015 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 1855394)
Good discussion and it's almost staying civil. Anyone care to breakdown the sick leave programs at other carriers? I know it's touchy and it was talked about here a few months ago. I know FedEx has a program where unused sick leave is deposited into the 401K at the end of the year. Seems to me it's a benefit that I have that just disappears since I rarely call in sick. I'd like it there when I need it but in my bank if I don't. Aside from the obvious we don't want people to fly sick and we don't want people abusing it, anyone have any other ideas on this?

That's a really good question. When I built this list:


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1725642)
I thought it would be helpful to list where Delta pilots lead the industry. We all know our company leads the industry in financial performance and merger effectivity, but how often do we pilots lead? Here's the list from our contract comparison as to who leads in the specified areas:

1. Scope...............Southwest
2. Pay Rates:
-----B747/777.......Delta
-----B767-4/A330..United
-----B767-300.......UPS
-----B757.............UPS
-----B737-900.......Delta
-----A320.............United
-----MD88/717......Delta
-----Per Diem........American
3. Work Rules:
-----Monthly Guarantee...UPS
-----Reserve Guarantee...UPS
-----DPA/ADG................Southwest
4. Vacation:
-----Accrual..............United
-----Pay...................FedEx
5. Training Pay.........Alaska
6. Sick Leave............Hard to tell
7. Retirement Plans...FedEx
8. Medical................Southwest
9. Long Term Disab...UPS

Sick leave is the one section that's hard to tell via the DALPA produced contract comparison. Sick leave is so subjective regarding who finds a particular aspect most important. Delta has the highest annual accrual, but it's use it or lose it. Southwest has the next highest annual accrual but a 1,392 hour bank limit while FedEx has no limit on accrual. Regarding sick pay for a reserve, Southwest and Hawaiian are the highest.

Sick leave is a tough call.

Carl

Purple Drank 04-03-2015 11:43 AM

Witnessing Carl dismantling the naysayers, operatives, and hacks who pop out of the woodwork--Tool, Rod, etc--at contract time is truly gratifiying.

Thanks for speaking up for us, Carl!

DeadHead 04-03-2015 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1855379)
Enough on costing PS. Carl is wrong.

Prediction: Contract will reduce exposure to PS by 50% by monetizing at or near current par, depending on financial performance during the negotiation period.

Hmmmmmm...

Funny you say that because my rep assures me that PS reduction isn't being discussed by anyone. Furthermore, the company didn't even whisper a mention of it when openers were exchanged.

So if what you say is true, then my reps are going to have ALOT of explaining to do.

Reducing exposure to PS, you might want to double check your talking point. I believe we are using At-Risk Compensation to rationalize concessions this week.

GogglesPisano 04-03-2015 12:21 PM

Any reduction in PS will be voted down. People have become accustomed to it. No amount of ALPA-speak or fuzzy math will change this.

TenYearsGone 04-03-2015 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1855463)
Witnessing Carl dismantling the naysayers, operatives, and hacks who pop out of the woodwork--Tool, Rod, etc--at contract time is truly gratifiying.

Thanks for speaking up for us, Carl!

Serious question:

There are a lot of guys that I agree with, like TIMBO, JERRY, CARL, GZ##,others on the other forum like Sol, Phil etc).

I would love to see these men take over DALPA and do their thing. How can we nominate or beg these men to run?

TEN

Purple Drank 04-03-2015 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by TenYearsGone (Post 1855486)
Serious question:

There are a lot of guys that I agree with, like TIMBO, JERRY, CARL, GZ##,others on the other forum like Sol, Phil etc).

I would love to see these men take over DALPA and do their thing. How can we nominate or beg these men to run?

TEN

Agree wholeheartedly. It would be tricky. And could you imagine the flack they would take from the entrenched bureaucracy. I believe one or more of these guys have run before unsuccessfully. I suspect if another **** sandwich is sent to us, it would favor their elections.

Absolutley no doubt the pilot group would benefit tremendously with those guys on the MEC.

Timbo, Carl, Jerry, Phil...what say you?

And how about you, Ten? You are an even-keeled guy and you value all viewpoits. Would love to see you as a rep.

Hawaii50 04-03-2015 12:52 PM

I take back the good discussion comment. Pretty much just a big ****ing contest here between the usual suspects.

Bananie 04-03-2015 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1855286)
They can make all the estimates they wish, but it won't be counted by the NMB in this Section 6 process. It can't be counted because the foundation of profit sharing is future profits...which are unknowable.

Not with the NMB they won't. If it gets rolled into the overall pie, it will be because our union agrees to this concession that would never be tolerated by the NMB's costing analysis.

Completely incorrect. Pay rates and profit sharing are only connected historically. They cannot be proportional in any way when negotiating a Section 6 contract because Section 6 deals with negotiating future items.

Nobody is calling profit sharing a free lunch. Profit sharing simply has no quantifying capability in Section 6.

Carl

I don't have any experience with the NMB but you sound like you do have some experience. I see a fault in your statements because if we tell the NMB that profit sharing doesn't have any quantifiable value, won't they just tell us that we should get rid of it all? To me, I would want to place some value on it so we can keep all/some of it.

Carl Spackler 04-03-2015 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by TenYearsGone (Post 1855486)
Serious question:

There are a lot of guys that I agree with, like TIMBO, JERRY, CARL, GZ##,others on the other forum like Sol, Phil etc).

I would love to see these men take over DALPA and do their thing. How can we nominate or beg these men to run?

TEN


Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1855491)
Agree wholeheartedly. It would be tricky. And could you imagine the flack they would take from the entrenched bureaucracy. I believe one or more of these guys have run before unsuccessfully. I suspect if another **** sandwich is sent to us, it would favor their elections.

Absolutley no doubt the pilot group would benefit tremendously with those guys on the MEC.

Timbo, Carl, Jerry, Phil...what say you?

And how about you, Ten? You are an even-keeled guy and you value all viewpoits. Would love to see you as a rep.

I could never work with Timbo. Every time he's around, the daughters get pregnant and the kegs are empty. I'm sensing a pattern here.

Carl

Carl Spackler 04-03-2015 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by Bananie (Post 1855523)
I don't have any experience with the NMB but you sound like you do have some experience. I see a fault in your statements because if we tell the NMB that profit sharing doesn't have any quantifiable value, won't they just tell us that we should get rid of it all? To me, I would want to place some value on it so we can keep all/some of it.

Great question. Neither side in this Section 6 could place a dollar cost on future profit sharing without just wild guessing. Neither side would want to set the precedent in front of the NMB of proffering (or accepting) a complete wild a$$ guess on any item. Since the profit sharing calculation methodology is part of our current contract, management would have to make the demand that the formulation change. At that point, we could simply say no. If that ended up being the final straw in the Section 6 process, the NMB would step in and ask for the costing data of the company's demand. That costing data could not be provided for future contract years, thus the company could make no claim that our refusal to accept would unduly harm them financially...especially since by definition, profit sharing only applies during corporate success. If the company continued to press for an item that can't be future costed, they would run the strong risk of being found to be bargaining in bad faith by the NMB. Nobody wants that name tag.

This is why it's an untenable position for management. Their only hope is to get us to voluntarily give it up. This is why we're seeing the multi-faceted drive to denigrate profit sharing in the eyes of pilots.

Carl


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