Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1859948)

If you take my posts as being arrogant or talking down to you, that's on you. I just want to know how you expect to achieve your goals.

So let's look at it this way. Let's say that you want C2K + inflation or no deal. At some point in time, we will probably achieve it but how long are you willing to wait for that? Remember that we get zero pay increases until we negotiate a contract. Zero. And every day that goes by, that requirement to get the inflation override increases. Also, every day that goes by means that you have lost money that you can be using to invest and money that you can use to buy that new car or buy your wife a new sewing machine (JOKE). So you are willing to wait as long as it takes, right? Now, not only have you lost the payrates necessary to achieve C2K + inflation,in the interim time your buying power has been eroded, and your retirement savings have flattened due to lack of increased contributions and the loss of the gains over the increase in those contributions you would have achieved. Your gains will have to increase at a faster rate in order to catch up. Think of it this way: I will take $100,000/year for 10 years over $1,000,000 10 years from now. Maybe you wouldn't because you think you will be able to demand $1,100,000 when the time comes. Even if that is true, I will still kick your ass at that point when we total up the coin purse. I have read enough of your posts on here to know that you aren't really interested in seeing the logic of the argument, and even if you were you wouldn't admit it, and really, that's OK.

All I ask is this: Do the math honestly. Keep the results to yourself if you wish and continue the chest pounding if that makes you feel better, but be true to yourself with the math.

Have a wonderful day.

Not sure where to begin with the inaccuracies in your post. We just got a .55% hourly increase. You say we will get zero. Is that part of the PWA done after one use? How about the part of the PWA about averaging with our peers? UAL and AAL have annual raises.

RA has committed to a contract before the amendable date. Do you doubt him? The old "we will have to wait 39 months to get a deal" threat won't play this time.

Going to war with the pilots is not an option. They can't handle the training now. Wait until 600 captains leave every 12 months.

Aim High!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1859918)

I know I am going to regret this, but exactly how do you figure there will be NO concessions? Answer this honestly if you can: Do you think management will sign off on anything that is completely one sided? How do you propose to accomplish this amazing feat of "negotiations"?

Pilots took concessions when there were no reasons for gains (10? years ago). Now its time to take it back when there are no reasons for ANY concessions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1859974)

Barring a deal, how much pay increase will we get next year?

RA has committed to a deal. Great. I take him at his word. However that is not a blank check. If it is I want $100,000/month or no deal.

The retirement problem is, well, a problem. I cancelled today for lack of an FO. Funny though that you only see one option. Even funnier that there are many on here that give RA credit for playing chess when dALPA plays checkers. You are doing EXACTLY that. Playing checkers. I'll leave it to you to try and understand it.

Lastly, I agree. Aim high. But aiming at the moon without a Saturn V is not going to get you there. Profits are great and competition is weak. All those things are in place for a great contract. I agree. Now let's don't blow the opportunity by being stupid and using a bottle rocket trying to get to the moon.

Again, standing by for the inevitable "managing expectations" crowd responses.

Screech away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Window_Seat (Post 1860048)

Pilots took concessions when there were no reasons for gains (10? years ago). Now its time to take it back when there are no reasons for ANY concessions.

So you are in the camp that believes we can realistically sign a contract that has zero concessions. Of any kind.

You moved the red one diagonally one square.

P-K4

I'm pretty sure most of us on this website are not under the delusion that there will not be any compromises but I think we are ALL under the impression that there WILL be significant gains for the pilot group. (Without touching PS :)) Yes, I know, there are 12500+ opinions on what "significant" means......

Denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1860076)

Absolutely. I agree with you.

But PD said NO concessions ( I like your word, compromises, better btw). Period. None. Nada. Nunca. Nyet. I want to know how he proposes going about that. I would bet you aren't interested in holding your breath until we can achieve his nirvana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1860076)

Another well put post. It's my experience that management always wants something. If we want significant gains those guys will want something in return. As long as we get more than we give. I don't mind converting some of the lower end of profit sharing as long as it's one for one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1860082)

The company's opener was 0% raises.

I suppose you'd expect us to open with concessions.

Are you by any chance 3bil (aka johnso29)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1860157)

The company's opener was 0% raises.

I suppose you'd expect us to open with concessions.

Are you by any chance 3bil (aka johnso29)?

Didn't you advocate for a concession on TLV just a month or two ago in exchange for other improvements? What changed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1860174)

Didn't you advocate for a concession on TLV just a month or two ago in exchange for other improvements? What changed?

I did. I have my criteria for a "yes" vote, same as anyone else. I can be convinced to vote "yes" to a 0% pay raise, given massive QOL improvements.

I just don't understand why some guys pound the "concession" drum unless they have an agenda that opposes that of Delta pilots.. There's no other excuse for that in this environment.