Quod erat demonstrandum:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Compounded.JPG

That's an "oldie but goodie!" It's been a staple for years with that bunch and seems to be coming back into style just in time for C2015.

Funny. I was thinking the same thing about the opposite crowd. ;)

I've expected the Delta Pilots to pursue improvements at every turn, and to do it as fast as possible to increase my time off and buying power as much as possible, preferably to 1970's levels. Your "restoration" is a pretty nebulous term too if I may say.

Do you want to restore unlimited rj's? Restore immovable vacation? Restore lower vacation and training? Restore no PWA protections for joint ventures? Do you want to restore reserve pilot pay to 70 hours and 2 short call windows every day on call? Do you want to restore no devation from DH with PS on either end of a trip? Do you want to restore a retirement system that relies solely on the Company's promise to pay a check, and costs you a hefty percentage if you want to make sure your spouse/heirs get paid when you die? Are you just cherry picking what you want to "restore"?

Ok, I'm done with that. Let's find common ground going forward and work from there. I want a lot more improvements, and my checking account bears out that I am much better off than I was 7 years ago (I just tossed out the 7 year old tax docs, it was so ugly then).

I don't believe that increasing pay rates nearly 50% in 8 years is a "precedent that works against us". I'd love to keep up that trajectory as long as we can! I know there are many things in the PWA that are still behind where they need to be, many that have been "restored", and many things that are way better than the "restoration" line you've drawn for 2004. Donatelli and Morgado in this area are tasked with maximizing the PWA and follwing the direction of the MEC reps. It's not their place to decide what the goals are, it's their place to try and achieve the goals as given by their elected representatives.

I actually appreciate most of our back and forth, I'm ok "agreeing to disagree", because I think you stay fairly consistent and only 'go personal' once in a while. I would appreciate you refraining from the "Lee Moak disciple", "ALPA insider", and "you guys"-ing me however. If I have made personal remarks about you please let me know, it is not my intent. WE are in this together. I'm like any other pilot who wants to improve this profession as much as possible, I just happen to step forward and do some union work when asked. Not everyone does, I'm okay with that. I don't, however take "marching orders" from Lee Moak, he's so beyond my level of participation. I wasn't really much of a volunteer when he was the MEC Chairman, and National does much bigger issues.

I am willing to promote the ALPA goals with regards to the Legislative and Safety agenda, and I have stepped forward when Tim, King and Donatelli asked for more volunteerism. They are three VERY different people with VERY different styles, but it doesn't really matter, they all wanted to help put the Delta Pilots back on top of the profession(and when we have multiple pilots bailing from AA, SW, and US to be new hires at DL, I think that says something is being done right over here, but I digress). I have NOT agreed with things each one of them has done, but I'm not going to quit helping or disparage them in public over it. It's okay to not agree 100%, no matter if it's you, Timmy C, King, Donatelli, PD, T, whoever... We are on the same team, and our duly elected reps have decided to chose a Chairman that works for them, and I respect that process. I will keep helping because I find satisfaction in promoting and defending the profession and our careers as Delta Pilots.

Get on board 100% anyway, it's the only way we have a shot at reaching the lofty goals we all have. You won't have a different group negotiating in 2015, this is the team, you can either help push us all forward or you can be an anchor holding us all back. Your choice. We are exactly 8 months from swapping openers, time to start talking up support for the NC and participating when called for Contract preparation with your peers.

P.S. There you went with the "that bunch" thing... Stop with the othering of your fellow Delta Pilots, WE are all in this together.

Math is truth, that's for sure. Lets do some more math: When you lose 50%, you don't need to gain 50% to break even...you need to gain 100% to break even. That's why your chart of 53% compounded (which is probably 85% compounded since the depths of bankruptcy wages) still leaves us short of our old best rates. And that of course leaves out the effects of inflation entirely. Now add to that our partial self-funding of these pay rates with profit sharing cuts, summer month length reduction, increased reserve utilization, sick leave harassment and many other QOL hits, then a more balanced view of our achievements begins to emerge. Now add the RAH scope abuse that was fixed by codifying it as a permanent part of our contract, increasing allowable jumbo RJ's just in time to help management's failed outsourcing experiment, JV "protection" language that is openly in imbalance now and management making it worse during the cure period, and we see even more of our union's strategy results.

I could go on, but it's late. I think you get the picture. Well maybe not you.

Carl

This is just the normal "lowering of expectations" that has been a forefront of the "old guard" since I have been around!

The BS about "nothing for 2 yeares after 2012" is just the normal regurgitated fear mongering...How about a 10 day, "Tell RA to stand aside while the MEC talks about it" like should have happened ?!? We don't know the result of having a backbone because that didn't happen because TO and the negotiating Chairman "DECIDED" for the MEC that it was good enough and that they would get the votes required to send it to the "never say NO pilots"!

Are we really still falling for this cesspool of attempted unity and lack of cojones?

LP

We have no scope protection now shiznit because union leaders like you refuse to defend the language in any way. We are entirely dependent on the goodwill of management right now. We have zero defense.

Sure, if it meant restoring 2004 buying power...wouldn't you?

We have no protections now shiznit. Language without a union to defend it is no language and no protection.

Sure, if it meant restoring 2004 buying power...wouldn't you?

Didn't 117 stop that?

Sure, if it meant restoring 2004 buying power...wouldn't you?

Personal choice there. Some people seem sure they'll be great investors during their working life, others believe the market can only go up. The real problem there is the ability to terminate pensions in BK, but that applies to the entire contract so you can't just cherry pick retirements.

I'll have to respond to the rest of your War and Peace length post later.

Carl

Just as an aside...
all my contacts/acquaintances/friends that have any contact with the new administration, since the ouster of King, have told me that the NEW Administration really needs the old guard like Harwood, White, Hanson, Pinho, and others that are "So much smarter than the average pilot".

If these are the individuals that Donatelli wants to rely on...I pity our pilot group. I also now understand why King was ousted...the "Old Guard" were threatened by his attempt to get the DALPA organization back in touch with the definition of ALPA..."Bottom UP". We are now in a position of a "ONE-WAY" proactive engagement strategy with a management team that just loves the term with no regard for the actual definition!

God help us in 2015.

LP

Hard to say. We sure have all the same players like alfaromeo, slowplay, shiznit and the others starting in at the exact same time saying the exact same things. We've also got a survey coming out, the results of which the pilots will NEVER see. We've also got the detailed objective of "a historic contract." And we'll almost certainly never be shown OUR opening position, thus we'll never know what our union even asked for.

Will we see the similarities in time to affect change? Do Delta pilots really prize cooperation with management above all else? I really don't know.

Carl

I think you're spot on here. The old guard is fighting tooth and nail to get back into power.

Carl