Until I see evidence to the contrary, it is like I said, another Fielding turd on the punchbowl.

And your cost neutral crap is just that. Crap. Crap that you constantly use to further your agenda. Too bad that you do that, because you actually have some good points, yet choose to smear the garbage with peanut butter in the hopes that some may like that turd a little better.

Why do you do that Jerry? Why not present facts instead of this kind of stuff?

If our contract is cost neutral to the company, I'm good with that. If it is cost neutral to us, that is a different story. And there IS a difference that you and Carl and PD and 88 refuse... refuse to acknowledge. Too bad. Only low information voters are paying any attention to that POV.

No they don't Herk. We don't even get to vote for our MEC chairman or the ALPA president. There's almost no accountability within ALPA. That's one of the main reasons there are such strong movements at Delta and United to remove ALPA. American had its fill in 1963 and removed ALPA.

You mean like Heidi Oberndorf where they fired her from her position at ALPA for talking about ALPA's accountability deficiencies? Moak sure wasted some heartbeats on that.

Carl

With all due respect Alan, you're clearly performing a task to further the group majority opinion within DALPA. I don't think that it's just you saying what you think. I don't doubt you truly believe it. But I also have no doubt that you are working for DALPA in some capacity and you absolutely refuse to admit it. Everyone here knows exactly what I do for Delta. They know my base, aircraft and position. They also know what I did for ALPA in the past and that I'm currently not working in any capacity for ALPA and am receiving no flight pay loss.

It's your right to hide. I just wish you wouldn't.

Carl

I'm not sure if I qualify as a "deadzoner" or not (don't know the exact definition). Because I came over from TWA and started late in my career at Delta, I wasn't going to quite have enough years (at age 60, which was the deal at the time) to get the full 65% FAE. In any case, having basically started my retirement planning in my mid 40's after we lost the pension, it looks like I'm going to have an income in retirement that will be quite a bit greater than what I would have had with the pension. So at least for me, I prefer our current retirement setup over the pension. Losing the pension may have been a "blessing in disguise."

And like you said, for the younger among us our retirement setup is a fantastic financial opportunity, if they invest wisely and manage risk effectively.

For those reasons, I don't think any improvement is needed to our retirement... other than the automatic improvement that comes with higher pay, which results in the 15% company contribution being a larger dollar amount. I think the focus needs to be on getting those W2's back up to a level that will provide us and our families a similar standard of living to what Delta pilots enjoyed throughout most of the 1980's, 1990's, and early 2000's. It's doable. Delta CAN afford it. But it's never going to happen if we don't set it as an objective with a firm resolve to achieve it.


Restore the buying power of our W2's and everybody benefits.

This is a problem for you sailingfun. I know you think it's clever when you attempt these acl65pilot imitations and use carefully crafted language specifically designed to deceive people. But it's not clever. It's completely transparent. The number of us seeing through this is growing...as Flamer is showing you here.

Carl

So post the Block hour costs Carl. They are easy to find for 2013.

And your response to management's burning desire for pay banding and longer freezes?

I hope you are right and management doesn't even bring up reducing profit sharing AGAIN this round.

But you are wrong.

Join the fight and make the calls.

Jerry

It is fact and I have personal knowledge Alan. I went through that summary to AirTran pilots with a SWA buddy of mine. He showed me in the SWAPA contract where every item was and I was able to check each item for its veracity. That summary was 100% accurate. If you're claiming it was false in any way, state what you think is a lie or misleading and I'll track it down.

See above. I know for certain that it was a factual document because I checked. You didn't. You preferred to call it an "infomercial" even though you just stated above you have no knowledge as to whether it was true.

When did I say that? I'm sure there was spin in that they didn't discuss any of the things that might be negative in their contract. But everything in that document was factual. It could help us with leverage. Yet you and the other DALPA insiders specifically attack the document as being false and an infomercial. Why would you do that to a document that could help us? I understand management doing it, but why would you do it?

Carl

It's not Jerry's cost neutral crap tsquare, it's management's exact words used to describe C2012.

Management's exact words tsquare.

Emotional temper tantrums won't persuade anyone tsquare. Neither will your attempts at defining what management meant when they describe C2012 as cost neutral.

How can he do better than quoting management's exact words? Why do you try to spin it tsquare?

I've absolutely acknowledged that before. I've even shown my work. Must have been while you had me on ignore. :rolleyes:

Carl

I can see where that would be beneficial. We would need to change the PWA definition of "Sickness" so that it's not just a personal medical condition of the pilot or add a new term altogether that we are allowed to use some amount of sick leave for in the situation you described.

If you are based in LAX, SEA or MSP, you already have this ability (with varying restrictions and limitations) as the result of state laws affecting those who work in those states. Maybe we could get Utah, Michigan, Kentucky, Georgia and New York to pass similar state laws as well and then we could have the benefit without even having to expend any negotiating capital on it.