The MEC negotiating committee could deal with the opening position. It was when the MEC didn't let the committee do its job that things fell apart. The end result could have achieved sooner, with all 15 jets delivered, had the committee been free to operate on its own. Everyone learned a lesson.

On 1 jan the rate goes to 270.00. Add in the DC plan and profit sharing around 15% and were talking 350.00 per hour.
We also worked few hours in 2013.then SW and earned more credit. One JoBerg trip on a GS could pay over 20 grand for 3 days.

I now see the light. Thank you.

I think we should take a pay cut and spend the rest of our careers on the jet we fly today.

Executive management's 300% to 700% increase in compensation since bankruptcy needs to double and our pay cuts will fund that.

Have you offered your services to them?

You seem to know a great deal about how to negotiate.

Would you explain the "pie" to us?

Or perhaps the "shines new jets"?

Or "the time value of money"?

Or the "black swan"?

Those are some of my favorites.

Jerry

Thanks, I think. :rolleyes:

Did you miss his quote in which he was demeaning my talk?

I must have. My apologies. You asked why they won't even try to get back to UAL +1, and I responded that we're already beyond that.

I have no idea, Timbo, and I have no control over them other than with my vote. I do know that my reps are committed to maximizing our returns at every opportunity. I know that's not as glamorous as full restoration yesterday, but it's put a whole lot of money back in my pocket that was not there before.

C2K happened not only because we were united and the MEC was more manly than the one we have today, but also because the market value of the industry, i.e., pilot compensation, was higher than it is today. Using the very thick hairs on their collective chests, the MEC of the day capitalized on that market and leapfrogged UAL by a percentage point.

All I'm saying is that we must recreate that market somehow in order to have the same leverage that we had back then, or find different leverage than what was used back then.

You might want to change the batteries in your calculator SF.

1.15 x $270 = $310.50, which is still $9/hr. below our 2004 pay rate, 11 years later, oh, and 11 years ago we had a DB plan too! :rolleyes:

Also, the JNB trip is 5 days, not 3. :rolleyes:

Just about nobody with a regular line can greenslip one due to the new FAR's. (100 in 28). If you already have a 78hr. line, you can't add a 32hr. trip to it in most cases. There are lots of them in open time that can't be picked up, or assigned as GS, except to a reserve, who might be using rolling thunder, if he's smart, but he won't get double pay for the trip, just 32hrs. over the cap. That new FAR has become a bidding-math nightmare, month to month, but it has also required more pilots at the top, which is good for everyone.

And for 76 driver, I think that SW rate you are looking at is their 'trip pay' which is less than one hour. Converted to one hour, they are right up there with our 777/747 rates.

If I run for MEC Chairman, can I count on your support? How's your strike fund funded? It's nice that we no longer have the "Golden Handcuffs" of a DB plan to worry about if we do walk.

Your point about ATC taking 11 years to replace 11 thousand controllers only strengthens my point, they can't replace all of us overnight.

Now, if we could get some industry wide support from the other two majors airlines, that would help us all. Why there was no call for a National SOS when we all started losing our pay/retirements is beyond me. Absent that leverage, what do you have left to negotiate with?

I wonder what our MEC discussed with the other ALPA groups, AA and the SWAPA in Chicago? I hope it was finding some mutual ground for support to get the RLA changed.

You don't think Delta's $Billion PER QUARTER is more leverage than the $1 Billion Delta made in all of 1999?

And how about the upcoming retirement wave? And the 1500hr. rule? You don't think that adds more leverage than we had in 1999-2000?

And what about the consolidated industry, fewer fare wars, record earnings. Is that not leverage?

And what about our 401K's in our name, vs. losing a DB plan if you walk? Is that not more leverage than we ever had in 1999?

If we don't have more leverage now, we never will!

FWIW, SWA trip pay converts to an hourly rate of $216. I am not looking right now, but I think that is well below our 777/744 rates.

Alan

The leadership and communication for C2K was lightyears better as well.

To me, that is the missing ingredient.

Jerry

Seems pretty clear to me, based on your posts here. You want the most we can get... and with no specific goal in mind. So if "the most we can get" (with no specific goal) ends up being 4833, you're cool with that.


I reached my conclusion based on your printed words here and the inconsistency between what you say you want and what you have indicated you will accept.


You sure you aren't related to alfaromeo? :eek:

To answer your question...

I've done enough that the DALPA guys focus a heck of a lot of attention on trying to discredit me (since they can't really discredit my argument).

I've done enough that guys like you wish I would have a lobotomy and change my point of view because you think we'd be "better off" if I quit espousing said point of view.

I've communicated my input to my reps, despite the fact that it goes in one ear and out the other.

I was involved in getting the resolution passed that ultimately resulted in opening up our BrokerageLink to more investment options, giving many of us a better ability to recover from the loss of the pension and giving the younger among us the ability to make an incredible retirement for themselves and their families.

I was involved in getting a candidate questionnaire (with the questions many pilots wanted answered) distributed to all C44 pilots during the LEC election several years ago. In fact, the whole thing was my idea. And while I'm sure you and the other Lee Moak disciples didn't like it (in fact, hated it), I think it was helpful to our council's pilots to see something other than the controlled message DALPA is so careful to craft for us to see.

So those are a few things. What have you done?