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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

DAL 88 Driver 08-23-2014 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1711136)
As I said, that's one of four possibilities that I could imagine were you to be elected to a seat on the MEC or Negotiating Committee.
As I thought, you would not want me on the negotiating committee.

Sorry, Alan, but I think all your tough talk about C2015 is just that.... talk. I've seen guys like you before. There was one guy in particular on the old DALPA forum who made a really big deal about how high his expectations were for C2012, specifically in terms of pay. All kinds of tough talk. When it came down to it, he was one of the biggest supporters of 4833. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Timbo 08-23-2014 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1711270)
You know we can't replicate the strategy to achieve UAL +1%? Aren't we already there? :confused:
Why is replicating another bankruptcy contract, plus 1% a goal? :rolleyes:

Sell it as, "The Delta Pilots have contributed over $10 BILLION DOLLARS" these past 10 years, to help Delta out of bankruptcy. The Delta Pilots pay cuts alone have paid down Delta's debt, from $17 Billion to $7 Billion. Now that Delta Employees are earning over a Billion per quarter, it is time for the employees pay and benefits to be RESTORED, prior to any more stock buy backs or dividends!"

Please answer my one and only question:

Why cannot our MEC say the word: "RESTORATION" ??

What is so hard about that? If you don't have a goal, how can you develop a game plan to achieve that goal.

DAL 88 Driver 08-23-2014 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1711261)
You are obviously a DALPA insider, and you are obviously making excuses and setting up an alibi for why we CAN'T succeed.

Why is that?

Why won't any of you DALPA insiders here tell us how/why we CAN succeed? Where's the letter from MD telling us to saddle up and follow him into battle? WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP?
Yep. You nailed it, PD. You won't see a letter like that from MD. All any of us really need to know about DALPA's objective/philosophy can be summarized in the quotes from Lee Moak in that Bloomberg/Business Week article. In particular, this one:

Moak contends that ALPA pilots at the larger carriers enjoy what he calls “mature, good contracts” already. Radical overhauls aren’t in the cards, he says.

DAL 88 Driver 08-23-2014 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711279)

Why cannot our MEC say the word: "RESTORATION" ??

What is so hard about that? If you don't have a goal, how can you develop a game plan to achieve that goal.
Thank you! How long have I been saying this?

Timbo 08-23-2014 05:16 PM
I was a long time DALPA supporter right up until a couple weeks ago.

The two things that turned me off were,

1. Lee Moak's interview quote about our contracts being mature, and

2. RA's statement that Labor Risk is off the table, with zero challenge from DALPA on that issue.

I wonder where RA got that idea...?

I'm afraid we are screwed, if our own MEC believes both of those statements, and since they have not answered either one, I can only assume they believe both to be true.

76drvr 08-23-2014 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711248)
It takes a lot longer to train up and replace 12,000 ATP pilots than it does to train up a 11 thousand ATC guys.
.
those 11.000 controllers made up nearly 100% of the controllers in the country. There are roughly 80,000 commercial airline pilots of which we make up about 15% of the workforce and serve about 25% of the capacity. Rough numbers but in the ballpark.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be disruptive, but it wouldn't be Armegedon either.

So your plan is an illegal job action, which has failed miserably in the past, got it. You going to run for office and bring us all restoration with your plan?

Carl Spackler 08-23-2014 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711154)
3.B.6 was a clause in our contract that basically said, on any 'new' equipment, for which no pay rates existed, the pilots would fly it for 6mo (or was it 9 mo?) while they negotiated a pay rate for it.

If at the end of that time, no pay rate had been established, the aircraft would be parked until a pay rate could be agreed upon.

Our CEO at that time was Leo Mullin, from McKinsey Associates, king of all out sourcing. Leo said he would sell them (we only had two on property, but many more coming) and cancel the orders for more. Our then MEC called his bluff and we settled for a higher pay rate. ($265 in 1998 I believe).

The answer to both of your follow on questions is the same, "Labor Risk".

Too bad it's off the table now!

Oh, and we gave 3.B.6 away in a subsequent contract...sigh. We could have used it to get much higher pay rates on the 717's.
Thanks for the history Timbo.

And you're right about "labor risk".

Carl

Purple Drank 08-23-2014 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1711289)
I'm not saying it wouldn't be disruptive, but it wouldn't be Armegedon either.
It would absolutely be Armageddon to the:

a) stock price;
b) BoD's (and ALPA's?) dreams of investment grade stock; and
b) RA's entire leadership regime, which would likely crumble when his claims of "labor risk being off the table" prove to be incorrect

We have leverage. Why do you seek to blunt it?

DAL 88 Driver 08-23-2014 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1711295)
We have leverage. Why do you seek to blunt it?
I'm thinking the answer can be found in this song: ;)

Carl Spackler 08-23-2014 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1711156)
We pattern bargained off of UAL. Got UAL +1% when the NMB released us into a thirty day cooling off period. I think we were about two weeks from an authorized strike.
Yes indeed. I think that's called "labor risk". What has happened to this pilot group? How did we turn into a group with so many tsquares and sinkr8's that become unhinged at the very mention of the word strike?

Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1711156)
Do you think we can replicate that strategy to get UAL +1% again?
That's not the question. The question is: Can we replicate the strategy of preparing the pilots for use of the strike weapon if it becomes necessary as the DAL MEC did with C2K?

Originally Posted by 76drvr (Post 1711156)
When do you think the NMB will release us into a 30 day countdown to a strike?
Why don't you just say what you really mean dude. You're really just using ALPA's favorite scare tactic of claiming the NMB will park everyone forever unless you accept what management offers. You've always been a long standing rock solid supporter of all things ALPA, but when you guys do this, it's a terrible disservice to this pilot group.

Carl


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