Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1710927)

Because of what happened to American, that is always the DALPA answer.

The issue that nobody at DALPA wants to talk about is, So WHAT?

If I were Lee Moak, or Mike D, I would say to the NMB, "You park us, we park the airplanes, period." No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Is that an illegal job action? Yup. Is Lee or MD going to go to jail, to get your pay and pension restored? Nope. That's why they won't even say the word.

But absent that threat, we have no real leverage, other than begging for 3% raises, after taking 42% pay cuts.

What was it Richard said, "Labor risk has been taken off the table..."

Without Labor Risk, we have no leverage.

So bend over and take C2015 in the pooper, again. You will NEVER see 'restoration' absent the threat of a job action. Richard is not going to throw that much money at us just because he likes us. If however, his billions of Delta Shares were to drop in value, due to pilot unrest....well...now we may be getting somewhere! But we don't have the leadership to pull it off. And to be honest, we don't have the membership to pull it off either. What did you think that rocking chair was for?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1680225)

Given what we've seen with the Dickson memo and 117 negotiations, our MEC chairman should be writing a letter similar to this:

"...all indications are that C2015 negotiations are going to be very tough given our desires for an industry leading contract in all areas, and management's desire to keep us at an industry average. Therefore we must begin the preparations for an option we hope we won't have to use - a strike. If a strike is ultimately called for by our members, it's imperative that all our families are prepared for a pay interruption. With deadlocked negotiations possibly taking two years and another year before they begin, we all have about three years to begin saving for our family's emergency fund. We recommend a minimum of 9 months living expenses be saved. Hopefully management will be reasonable and see the value of having the best pilots in the industry, but we must be prepared if they're not..."

The fact that this is not happening right now, leads me to believe DALPA has no intention of pursuing our ultimate weapon. No matter what.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1711000)

While some would contend we have little leverage, I disagree. We have all the leverage we need.

Aside from the billions in profits, management is in a full fledged panic over the training waterfall. After years of no growth and no retirements due to age 65, the nightmare of having 9 fleets and 8 pilot bases with our PWA is coming home to roost.

All we have to do is sit back and watch the training ball get bigger and bigger and bigger.

To succeed we need to:

1) Keep profit sharing off the table at all costs.

2) Keep the AF/KLM grievance separate from C2015. Period.

3) Attain a reasonable C2015 that recognizes our contributions and sacrifices.

Iron clad scope with immediate penalties.

2004 hourly rates date of signing plus some accounting for inflation. 5% for years 2 and 3.

17% DC

42 days of vacation

5:15 per day vacation and training

$1 hour more on each per diem plus .10 per year

$4000 per year for medical HSA with roll over for unused portion

If we reduce profit sharing and fold AF/KLM grievance into C2015, WE LOSE.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1711000)

While some would contend we have little leverage, I disagree. We have all the leverage we need.

Aside from the billions in profits, management is in a full fledged panic over the training waterfall. After years of no growth and no retirements due to age 65, the nightmare of having 9 fleets and 8 pilot bases with our PWA is coming home to roost.

All we have to do is sit back and watch the training ball get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1711003)

Scambo is much too purdy to go to jail:D

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1710964)

#3 - My point of view would not prevail on the negotiating committee or with the pilot group as a whole, and we as a pilot group would be worse off. How? Are you saying you agree with my point of view and we'd be worse off if it didn't prevail? Or are you saying we'd be worse off because it was a waste to have someone with my point of view on the negotiating committee?

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1710964)

#4 - My point of view would be altered by "reality," we'd be better off, and I would have a more informed perspective to share on these boards. That sounds to me like you're saying you think we'd be better off if I changed my point of view.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1711093)

I'm saying that, if you're correct and you can't bring others around to your point of view, we all lose and you'll be correctly frustrated.



Here I'm saying that, if you're wrong and others' opinions prevail, we will be better off as a result and you will have more data points from which to form your perspective than you do now.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711124)

How did we arrive at C2K pay rates in the first place, and can we replicate that strategy?

1. We were coming off a crappy 1996 contract, the pilots were P.O.'d, just like today.

2. The company was making record profits, just like today.

3. The MEC was educating the pilot group through family awareness meetings, and openly talking about what it would take to "Restore the Profession"...unlike today.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1711113)

I think the data points are pretty clear...my "perspective" is not going to change.