Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

Carl's back.
**** just got real.

He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by index (Post 1725020)

Thanks shiz. BTW, beer drinking and forum surfing go hand in hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1725055)

Shiz,

Thanks for volunteering.

Thanks guys. I know not everyone has the desire to get involved, I'm sure I'll step back when my circumstances change someday.

At least be a "yes" to the four Leine questions.... It's good for all of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1725124)

...each rep's job is to guard and advance the best interests of his constituents as he sees fit.

This is at the heart of what ****es people off about (D)ALPA and causes distrust/disunity. Why bother to have surveys? Why pretend to be interested in what the body of constituents want when the inner circle can and does whatever the he11 they want regardless? I agree with the others. Either represent what you are asked to represent or step aside (not directed toward you personally).

Additionally, there should be NOT ONE rep on this board getting paid to be on this board unless they state they are on FPL and tell us who they are. It's wrong to use dues money under such a dubious facade.

Welcome back Carl. Good to see you! It was silly for what and the way you were banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1725202)

Now...the rest of the story.

This illustrates just one of our problems within DALPA. Shiznit, you were an elected rep, but were not re-elected. You were replaced by a rep that is not voting like a management puppet...which is exactly why the pilots in that base voted for him. But when this happens, DALPA makes sure they find a spot high up for you in the MEC administration. A line pilot that wants to "volunteer" on the MEC administration could not get the "volunteer" position you have shiznit. And THAT'S the problem. The pilots routinely toss out reps in favor of reps who say they won't be puppets, but those reps who are tossed simply find their way back to DALPA in admin positions. Is there any wonder why we have this utterly dysfunctional relationship between reps and the MEC administration?

As I've said many times before, our problem is not with our reps. Even though I strongly disagree with the behavior of some of them (like Nestor), they either do the will of their pilots or they won't last long. The problem is our MEC administration. Donatelli and his team are a tremendous disappointment. He's running things every bit as top-down as did Moak and O'Malley, and he's doing so with a team of shiznits. Sad.

Carl

Ruh roh raggy.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lu-yE4qKUt...-06%5B1%5D.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by index (Post 1725024)

This line of thinking is one of the main problems with our union. If a rep is unable represent the will of the majority and instead wants to substitute his "best judgment" then that rep should do the honorable thing and step aside.

We've been down this road too many times before and it has got to stop. The shear arrogance of "I know better than you," "I know things you don't know," "we'll never see the "3" and "3", yada yada yada, has GOT TO STOP.

Absolutely they should disregard "THEIR" information and do the job they were elected to do- REPRESENT THE PILOTS. Not substitute their secret knowledge for the collective wisdom and desires of the majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1725124)

That is one point of view of how a representational system should work -- that each rep's job is to carry out specific tasks put upon him by his constituents, regardless of what effect he believes that performing those tasks will have on those constituents.

That is the ONLY "point of view" if you are describing a representational system Alan. Anything else is not a representational system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1725124)

The opposite point of view is that each rep's job is to guard and advance the best interests of his constituents as he sees fit.

No Alan, that's a dictatorship. Every dictatorship describes itself as advancing the best interests of the people it subjugates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1725124)

Most representational systems seem to borrow something from each of these points of view to find a happy medium.

That's just not correct. You're either representing the best interests of your constituents by advancing THEIR desires, or you're doing things your way while trying to pretend you've advanced the desires of your constituents. This is no different than our Congress. A congressman can ignore the strong desires of his/her constituents by doing whatever he/she feels is best, but only until the next election. If a congressman (or LEC rep) really believes the desires of his/her constituents is wrong, that rep needs to do everything they can to educate the constituents and persuade them. If they cannot be persuaded, that rep must either vote the way their constituents desire, or resign. There is no option to ignore them and do what you want...unless you're OK with being a dictator.

Until we all get this concept right, we'll continue to be disappointed in our results. We're either a representative democracy, or we're not. Right now, it is very clear that we are not.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWA320pilot (Post 1725142)

Sorry Alan but this type of thinking needs to end. The reps need to do the will of those who elected them regardless of their personal beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1725154)

Sorry, but I disagree. I don't expect my rep to act as the puppet of the pilot group. I expect him to learn much more about the circumstances surrounding our careers and future prospects than I ever care to, and to use that knowledge to advance my career to the greatest extent possible and along the lines of my desires. To the extent that he does not meet my goals and/or expectations, I expect him either to adequately justify his actions or step aside.

That is the true essence of a representational democracy.

That's NOT the true essence of a representational democracy Alan. That might be your opinion, but that's not describing a representational democracy.

You're right in that a rep needs to use his/her position to learn a lot about the issues, but that knowledge does NOT give them the right to vote however they wish. It is incumbent upon said rep to take his/her knowledge and educate the constituents and do the very best they can to persuade. If they can't persuade, they CANNOT vote against their constituents' views. Never. If they do, they're not reps.

Carl

Whether you like DPA or hate DPA, I think the following chart provides some pretty good perspective:

Rates Comparison