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Originally Posted by Karnak
(Post 1742056)
Ok. I thought you'd get the point.
"Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". I do agree if we had 5% increases every year for my last 26yrs, we would be in great shape... but we did not. |
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
(Post 1742266)
Actually, I was hoping you would get the point...
"Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". I do agree if we had 5% increases every year for my last 26yrs, we would be in great shape... but we did not. |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1742165)
This is just flat out wrong. There was no "big leap." If you take 1980's rates and adjust for inflation to today, they come out within a couple of bucks more than C2K rates adjusted for inflation to today.
During the 1990's, we had a concessionary contract (POS96). I don't know what the pay cut percentage was (maybe a single digit percentage) but it was practically nothing compared to the 42% cumulative cut we took in "the dark years." I don't remember what the percentage pay increase was with C2K either, but it was certainly not a "big leap." All C2K really did was to correct us back on track to where we were prior to POS96. And since POS96 wasn't that big of a pay cut, C2K couldn't have been that big of an increase either. |
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1741728)
I'll take that bet. What do you think it will be?
We will have to provide notes from doctors for use over holidays, days before holidays, days after holidays, days before vacation, weeks before vacation, days after vacation, weeks after vacation, more than 10 hours, less than 10 hours, weekends, or weekdays. You get the idea. There are lots of other possibilities. The Company will be creative and shameless in their "needs." |
Originally Posted by orvil
(Post 1742285)
Here is one that comes to mind: The Company will want to modify sick pay.
We will have to provide notes from doctors for use over holidays, days before holidays, days after holidays, days before vacation, weeks before vacation, days after vacation, weeks after vacation, more than 10 hours, less than 10 hours, weekends, or weekdays. You get the idea. |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 1742183)
Actually, if you wrench the numbers a bit, C2000 wasn't a "big leap". Most of the increase was to regain buying power that had been on a steady decline since 1984.
Most of what C2000 did was provide "restoration". Nu But it doesn't. It doesn't matter if you call it "restoration", a "great leap", or "righteous justice" - it was a rate of increase in one contract greater than the increases achieved by other airlines that didn't see subsequent concessions during LivingTheDream's "dark years". Timbo and LivingTheDream jump aboard with ""Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". Maybe they could start a thread calling out Southwest, FedEx, and UPS pilots for destroying our profession with their underachieving contract history. Just be prepared to respond to how they could possibly have found themselves earning more than us using their incremental gains strategy. The term "restoration" should be banned from any contract discussions. We should position ourselves so we aren't vulnerable to the abrupt losses that result in the need for restoration in the future. It's been done by others. That was the history I was providing. |
I like the way you think. Maybe we should just take no raises or even a slight pay cut to pre-fund our next pay cuts when the economy falters. That way the pay cuts would be less as we would have a bank:rolleyes:
Originally Posted by Karnak
(Post 1742324)
If I "wrench the numbers a bit", I can prove the Sun orbits the Earth!
But it doesn't. It doesn't matter if you call it "restoration", a "great leap", or "righteous justice" - it was a rate of increase in one contract greater than the increases achieved by other airlines that didn't see subsequent concessions during LivingTheDream's "dark years". Timbo and LivingTheDream jump aboard with ""Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". Maybe they could start a thread calling out Southwest, FedEx, and UPS pilots for destroying our profession with their underachieving contract history. Just be prepared to respond to how they could possibly have found themselves earning more than us using their incremental gains strategy. The term "restoration" should be banned from any contract discussions. We should position ourselves so we aren't vulnerable to the abrupt losses that result in the need for restoration in the future. It's been done by others. That was the history I was providing. |
Originally Posted by NERD
(Post 1742354)
I like the way you think. Maybe we should just take no raises or even a slight pay cut to pre-fund our next pay cuts when the economy falters. That way the pay cuts would be less as we would have a bank:rolleyes:
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Shouldn't we all want as much as possible without killing the golden goose? Call it what you want, restoration, incremental gains, fat moolah. Just show me the money!
Fwiw, I have no idea how to get it. I just want it. Our union educated us on the "time value of money". With that in mind, we should all want the biggest raise, restoration, as quick as possible!!!! http://cdn3.volusion.com/h35fd.rs5p2...jpg?1332441817 |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1741720)
First: the survey certainly provides data points to the NC. But if ALPA never releases the survey results or completion rate to us or to the company, how does 100% participation generate "unity" or "leverage?"
Second: if ALPA neeeds a survey to know we want massive gains with zero concessions...they really are out of touch. Unity is not built by talking points or memos from MD. |
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