Alitalia served the Transatlantic with 777 and 330s so their percentage of EASKs would have produced a larger block hour requirement on the Delta side had Delta honored the 50% EASK share.

The Block hour ratio is significantly different because Delta didn't feel obligated to honor a written contract...

LHR was always part of the Transatlantic JV, heck AirFrance flew LAX LHR for a while...

The DALPA briefing for the inclusion of Alitalia clearly stated that the change from 47.3% to 50% would add 6 round-trip flights (after we're done with the mod lines, LOL)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Brief%2002.png

Ask yourself:
Is it a "win" if we agree to a lesser amount (50%) than actual (51.5%) when the starting point already is below written contractual language and subject to a closed grievance?

Why should we back out the VSJV numbers? Thats not how the contract is written is it? And if there is a change, what is the quid-pro-quo for that?

Shouldn't the baseline starting point be our current contract with a 50% EASK share, then calculating the aircraft block-hours based on that, before backing out the VSJV numbers?

Or does the settlement for this years' cure period compliance look-back make it all good?

Cheers
George

Here's my question, how many pilots do we need to hire for the rest of the year WITH AND WITHOUT this TA?

Here's my question...

Outside of the bankruptcy fiasco, have Delta pilots ever rejected a TA?

Great point. Delta pilots have never in the history of Delta turned down a TA that was to be voted on by the pilots as a whole. Our union has voted it down. If the union brings this to a vote, the odds are bad b/c it always passes. Makes me sick.

This TA is like the jello of the month club that Clark Griswold got.

I will get a set of bullet points on the JV changes and get back to all with a more thorough explanation. Sorry for the delay.

Completely agree. PS is our safety net. Voting no for the FIRST time in 26 years!!!

To answer your question, the 777A with reasonable hours (not living off GS credit) should be 7 to 8 times the median household income imho. The 737 a percentage of that.

Use the 2004 median household income, adjusted for inflation it's $56K, and 7.6 gives you what 2004 C2K pay rates gave a 777A doing 85 hours per month (320/hr x 85 x 12 x 1.25 inflation).

I think the current median household income is $52K, it's gone down since 2004. Run 7 to 8 times that and you're around 356 to 400 bucks per hour, or a bit higher than $311 rate for 2016 in the TA.

That said, I'll complete the argument, add PS with a $4.5B PTIX, 401K at 16%, etc, you're at around $380/hr in total compensation. It is a pay raise. It's a 8/0/3/3 pay raise though with a lot of concessions.

I am a no. It's rather awful as a package.

Just called and found out you had to be off probation by 1 June to get a vote. Guess I will be watching from the sidelines, but hoping for resounding "No!" Would be nice if the MEC took care of it for their membership!!

As I read the highlights, I see one 8% pay increase. plus
Reroute, I see no penalty for the scheduler to destroy my bid line and treat me like a flying reserve. huge minus
I see substantial reduction in profit sharing. minus
Sick leave tightened. I already go to MY doctor every time I call sick. minus
Increase in targeted line value. minus
vacation and training days increased 15 minutes. plus.
No increase in daily value. 5:15 needs to be the minimum day. Three day trips where I fly 7:55, zero (because I'm enjoying CRW for 30 hours), 7:55 need to pay 7:55, 5:15, 7:55.
DALPA MEC assures me, pay will go up $3500/month and $42,000/year by 2018. I like the sound of that.
However, I want to fly my line as I bid it.

What will health insurance costs do?
SFWB

Just spitballing some numbers on what the LCA concession costs us. Lots of assumptions here, so feel free to slash. I figured 35hrs OE for newhires, 25 for transition (not sure if that is correct), and 900 hrs/yr of trips for the average FO.

First, new-hire OEs. Assuming 1k new hires per year, that’s 35k hrs of OE trips per year. 75% of them no longer open to bid = 26,250 fewer F/O hours needed = 30 fewer F/Os.

Next, transition OEs. Assuming 6 AEs/yr, 2,500 OE hrs per AE = 13 fewer F/Os

Next, impact of 2yr seat lock on new hires. Assuming 10% of new hires want to move up at year 1 due to year 2 payrate differences or other reasons. No longer possible… another 21 F/O jobs gone.

Somewhere around 60 fewer F/Os needed. A 6% cut in hiring. Not bad negotiations for the company, and an easy sell to people who think it won’t affect them… until they get pushed down a few numbers when a good chunk of the senior pilots in each F/O category bid over to Capt.

Add in the job losses due to the other concessions, and I’ll be bold enough to say that’s not a candy bar floating in our punch bowl.