Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

While most everyone is focused on the top end of the pay scale, I'm looking at the bottom as that's where I am. Please tell me if I wrong about this but the E195 in the current contract has it's own pay scale. From what I see today, the new scales have the 195 and 190 in the same line. So, a hypothetical 12-yr 195 Captain just took a $24ish/hr rate cut and they aren't even on property.

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gloopy

06-09-2015 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1899582)

Before we lock-in 50% block hours, here's some actual DALPA Data on the JV for comparison:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Brief%2001.png

Cheers
George

So this TA sells back to the company around 17% bock hours in the AF/KLM JV? :eek:

Not to mention the ability to further gut EASK's by allowing every block hour on AF/KLM to be done on 777/340/380 while ours could be all 767, 757 or even smaller if they wanted?

If true, this has to be the dumbest and most severe concession ever agreed to outside of BK. They couldn't get this in 1113 and we give it up forever in a TA? :confused:

Professor

06-09-2015 11:57 AM

Alright it is 51.5% Block hours.

So the new language is 50%+/-1% block hours.

That is the translant JV and excludes Virgin Atlantic.

Currently Alitalia is included in this calculation, inclusive to the TA. They have declared they are leaving in 2017. Alitalia leaves Air France-KLM

And that flying would have to flow back to us.

Something to keep in mind.

At first look I thought that this JV language was a problem, but it really isn't. And if we throw Alitalia in, I think it could end up being a really good deal.

But good/bad is really up to you to decide. But that is what I think.

gloopy

06-09-2015 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1899598)

Let's say you're right. Now go back and read how many guys are already voting no because of something other than the pay rate. The NC would have to ignore the entire survey in lieu of pay rates. Fact is, everyone has their favorite slice of the pie and will be put out if they don't get it.

So the survey directed us to pursue numerous layered deep and severe concessions like this? What needs of who exactly are served by gutting the JV language to allow for 50/50 block hours instead of EASK's which significantly favor DL pilot jobs?

I bet not one person put that in their survey. Not one. Not even you.

Professor

06-09-2015 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1899618)

Reference my post above, its not as bad as you think. In fact its a pretty good solution to the JV numbers.

Maddog Heaven

06-09-2015 12:03 PM

Omg? Omg! Omg.

gloopy

06-09-2015 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1899615)

AZ was only ever I think around 2% of the JV. In any case, that was EASKs. We gave up the astonishingly bad deal of a 3 year bottomless pit agreement with a 1 year cure period and they still couldn't even honor that deal. But now we will let them fly any plane against any plane and call it even, and we fly on average smaller planes that they do.

50/50 block hours when we're currently doing 67/33 is a huge loss regardless of what happens to AZ.

OceanCrosser

06-09-2015 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 1899290)

You know upon rereading I should probably apologize and retract my initial post. I didn't mean to cast senior captains in such a harsh manner, as if they didn't care.

I truly did not mean that (but I was posting on my phone and kept it brief). What I should have said was that senior capts care far more about pay rates and DC contributions than perhaps narrowbody and RJ issues--and that is understandable, and also explains that it is very difficult for the negotiators to please all the pilots all the time.

What I did not mean was that I thought they were all "got mine, so up yours" in approach--they are not!

Herkflyr,

No harm, no foul. :)

We agree this TA is a turd in a punch bowl... however I will reserve my final thoughts after I hear and read the details.

Wish us all well!!

Fly safe,

OC

APCLurker

06-09-2015 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1899479)

370+ million a year.

Thanks for the info.

1.1 Billion over the life of the contract for us (from your chart), versus 5 BILLION in the stock buyback.

1/5 th. the amount........

I'm curious how dalpa justifies 1.1 billion over the course of the entire contract in light of a $5 Billion buyback.

Unbelievable.

pilotc90a

06-09-2015 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 1899605)

George, please keep in mind that those don't include Alitalia, and they do include our UK flying which wouldn't be counted under the TA. The block hour ratio today is considerably different.

Honest question: What is our flying protection under the VA JV?

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