Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1711375)

Because the others remained in bankruptcy longer and went backwards. Crowing about your progress in a race while the others are in quicksand is not a validation of your racing skill.

Carl

Wait, USAirways exited bankruptcy in 2005, UAL exited Bankruptcy in 2006, Delta didn't exit bankruptcy until 2007. We all went through mergers and had opportunities to improve our contracts and USAirways and UAL had a 1-2 year head start exiting bankruptcy, yet DAL has a better contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711387)

Best contract in the Industry? Do you really believe that?

How did our 747/777 pay rates get BELOW South West's 737 pay rates? :rolleyes:

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

I just checked APC and it shows SWA 737 CA rates at $216 and DAL 747/777 rates at $263. Also, SWA doesn't have a 15% 401k contribution. Where are you getting your numbers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1711309)

No it didn't man. It provided the leverage capability to set those record rates of pay. What provided the leverage to actually set those record pay rates were the DAL MEC (backed by Delta pilots) making it clear they would strike.
Carl

Carl, a strike wasn't on the table at the time we negotiated the Delta Dot. That happened about a year later if I recall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711314)

And your plan for restoration is...? :rolleyes:

Further Appeasement?

4-8-3-3 ain't going to get us there in my lifetime.

Go read Flying the Line, vol. I and II.

How do you think our pay rates got to where they were in the first place?

Hint; Appeasement wasn't in their vocabulary.

We were talking about your plan. Do you not want to talk about your plan anymore? Are you going to run for office and walk into the NMB with your plan?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1711319)

PATCO were government employees, and as such, their contract contained a no-strike clause. Our contract does not.

If we demanded a contract that led the industry in every measure, and the NMB threatened to not release us, it could be argued that it would be the NMB that was violating the law by misusing their charter to remove the legal right to strike.

The PATCO comparison is absolutely apples and oranges.

Carl

It was an illegal job action, something Timbo advocates. Apples and apples. Now how did that work out for the controllers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711279)

Why is replicating another bankruptcy contract, plus 1% a goal? :rolleyes:

You might have missed it Timbo, but UAL has a post bankruptcy JCBA with CAL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1711261)

What's your angle, 767drvr? Management plant? DALPA insider?

were the questions too hard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1711243)

First, let's be real.

First why don't you answer the questions instead of attack fellow pilots? Let's review:

So we trade a productivity concession for pay?

How much do you think this productivity concession you propose is worth, particularly if its only for 4 months? Do you think that RA will write a billion dollars worth of improvements into our contract for this concession?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1711303)

Why don't you just say what you really mean dude.
Carl

Why don't you answer the question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1711248)

It takes a lot longer to train up and replace 12,000 ATP pilots than it does to train up a 11 thousand ATC guys. Many of my college friends were controllers who went on strike, and a few month later, many of my furloughed American Airlines friends replaced them, with only a few weeks training, until they were recalled to AA 3 years later (1984).

Apparently it took ten years to get staffing back to normal.

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller.They were replaced initially with nonparticipating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some nonrated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained. The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it would take closer to ten years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal."