I think that is the first time I have mentioned profit sharing with the rates. When SW was getting profit sharing and Delta was not it was certainly mentioned often on the forums. Personally I would rather monetize the profit sharing and have it built into the rates. Most on here feel differently and seem to value it greatly. Profits in the airline industry go away fast.

Delta's block our cost to staff a 737 is well above SW for 2013 the last year the data is out for. We are almost 20% above them.

Well boo frickin hoo... I don't CARE if our "cost" to staff a 737 is higher. SWA has efficiencies built into their business model that Delta can only dream about. And Delta has revenue potential built into our business model that SWA can only dream about.

What matters in this comparison is how much we make. (And, really, I think the comparison should be SWA 737 to Delta MD-88/90, based on the type of flying done and number of pax carried.) If the average SWA Captain is making more, then that's a relevant data point that could be used in helping to make the case for increasing/restoring our pay.

Don't get so lost in the MIT data, sailingfun. There's more to the story than that.

Carl, no moving of goal posts, you are confusing two separate discussions. One was a discussion of the use of Section 3.B.6 to establish 777 pay rates pre C2K, otherwise known as the "Delta Dot", the other conversation you refer to is pattern bargaining off of the United rates during a cooling off period at the end of C2K. Two completely different negotiations, using completely different forms of leverage.

DALPA did release its opening position. It was $346 an hour while the current highest pilot rate in the world was $223 an hour (NWA 744A). We "settled" at $265/hr. You wouldn't believe the amount of beotching, moaning and groaning that ensued after that (from the pilots, not mgmt). You would have thought we agreed to a pay CUT. Same lament as now, different day ("we are pushovers, mgmt won again, when will we fight?" etc etc etc)

Funny, those same guys are now the ones most proud of what we achieved back then.

I haven't advocate any such thing. Focus grasshopper, focus.

Fixed it for you. Let's go back to the original question Jerry.

"So how would you leverage the training waterfall?

If you are just going to watch it, how long are you going to watch it and how does watching it create the leverage?"

Jerry, at that point you advocated negotiating a productivity concession:

"If, we grant any relief it must be of limited duration.

I.e. if we flex more hours it would be for 4 months a year for 2 years."

My next question to you, which you have yet to answer was:

"So we trade a productivity concession for pay?

How much do you think this productivity concession you propose is worth, particularly if its only for 4 months? Do you think that RA will write a billion dollars worth of improvements in our contract for this concession?"

Can we have a thoughtful discussion on the leverage you believe we have, what it's value is and how we can use it to improve our contract?

I think we've identified this weekend's "on call" management/DALPA web board fireman (he's carrying plenty of water).

The only question now is how much FPL and/or comp time he's receiving.

Is that black helicopter back again?:eek:

One could say the same for you and that SWAPA infomercial for the new AirTran guys.