Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1712401)

Proposed by which side?

When I last flew with SD, he was quite certain that those are a solution to our trip mixes in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712400)

We didn't get numbers until WELL after the opener, which was conceptual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712400)

If you bothered to read the above from August you would have noted that not even the MEC had a number like you claim.

It's difficult to discuss this if you won't even listen. You're the one talking numbers. I'm the one saying that the detailed opening position of Delta pilots for C2K was released to Delta pilots at some point. Now they won't be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712400)

You probably also don't remember (because you weren't here) that each section was TA'd one at a time and pay was last,

What does that have to do with this discussion? We're talking about whether the detailed opening position of DALPA was ever released to Delta pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712400)

but don't let facts get in the way of your lies.

Reading comprehension...it's a good thing.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1712391)

There's no question that Delta pilot "have it in them." This was proof. But now our union has been completely co-opted by Delta management. I don't know if we can muster the effort to force our union to behave like a union. The recall of every ATL rep would be a great start.

Carl

Like the ATL pilots and reps that cleared out their lockers under the direction of Lee Moak in 2006? Delta pilots aren't co-opted, they know when to step up and know when not to blow their wads too early. I hope this isn't more disdain from you about Delta pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1712405)

When I last flew with SD, he was quite certain that those are a solution to our trip mixes in the future.

Then they gotta pay. In addition to all the positives we saw in the last TA, we should further mitigate the negatives, especially block hour length and IROP protections, hotels in domicile for any back to backs and extra circadian protections like no assignment until 10AM (standard book first day) the day after you land for reserves, and the automatic ability to avoid them through PBS for line holders. We should also get the hour of long call we gave up back, plus an hour as a penalty…scratch that...an incentive, because that's the previously agreed upon cost apparently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1712396)

I gotta side with you on this one. Not once have I heard anything of the sort except from Jerry.

That was the exact problem with C2012 and 117 negotiations. Things were being discussed that never made it to the reps. Giving away profit sharing was specifically prohibited by our reps without their concurrence. The MEC admins did it anyway. SDP's were not known to our reps until well into 117 negotiations.

That's why people have coined the term: "shadow MEC". I've been hearing exactly what Jerry is saying from management types. Our reps are saying they've heard nothing official from the MEC admins about it. Given recent history, that's hardly comforting.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1712408)

Openers aren't conceptual. Concepts are conceptual. Legal opening positions under Section 6 are detailed and in writing. Those details were released to Delta pilots at some point. Now they won't ever be released. That's a problem.

It's difficult to discuss this if you won't even listen. You're the one talking numbers. I'm the one saying that the detailed opening position of Delta pilots for C2K was released to Delta pilots at some point. Now they won't be.

What does that have to do with this discussion? We're talking about whether the detailed opening position of DALPA was ever released to Delta pilots.

Reading comprehension...it's a good thing.

Carl

Then go back and start over. You brought up the pay number being put out there. It wasn't out out as part of the opener. It's clearly stated in the newsletter. My post is accurate, your lies are not.

Quote:

Delta Pilots' Contract Opener: RESTORING THE PROFESSION

BACKGROUND

Pilot contributions to Delta's record profits are significant.

Value of pilot concessions --- $1 billion-plus since 1996.
Record FY 1998 and FY 1999 profits --- $1 billion each year.
Record 4th quarter profits --- $364 million.
From 1985 to 1998, the top five management salaries at Delta have increased by 223%.

ISSUES

Compensation

Pilot salaries have not been adjusted since 1991, and are lagging inflation by 21% since 1990.
Pilots are seeking an adjustment to wages that reflects their contribution to the company's success and recognizes their professionalism, competence, expertise and productivity.
Elimination of two-tier wage scales including the three-year B-Scale for entry level pilots and Delta Express reduced pay rates.
Restore night pay.
Increase pay for overtime flying.

Job Security and Scope

Increase restrictions on all domestic code-sharing partners in regard to regional jet and turboprop operations to secure more flying for Delta pilots and protect Delta feed.
Increase restrictions on all international partner flying.
Broaden protections and restrictions regarding the use of Delta brand names by other carriers, cargo flying, and marketing and scheduling coordination.
Provide for a voting member of the Delta Board of Directors.

Quality of Life

Improve scheduling and work rules including rest breaks and rest provisions for pilots on reserve.
Improve work rules for pilots performing international flying, including crew rest facilities.
Improve training, including curriculum and pay.
Establish contractual pay and working conditions for all pilot seniority list instructors.
Restore moving expense reimbursement coverage.

Benefits

Improve retirement program.
Improve medical program including a reduction of premiums, maximum lifetime limit and out-of-pocket expenses.
Restore vacation time and pay.
Improve company provided life insurance benefit.

You weren't here and you are wrong again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712409)

Like the ATL pilots and reps that cleared out their lockers under the direction of Lee Moak in 2006? Delta pilots aren't co-opted, they know when to step up and know when not to blow their wads too early.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712409)

I hope this isn't more disdain from you about Delta pilots.

As you well know, my disdain is for our unelected MEC admins, a few of our reps, and the national organization. Not Delta pilots. But again, you knew that.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomiezombie (Post 1712427)

You weren't here and you are wrong again.

Talked to too many Delta pilots who remember a detailed list of what DALPA was demanding as an opening position for C2K. You're right that I wasn't here, but much more details were released beyond that conceptual list.

Carl

PS: I'm not on flight pay loss, so I have to run now. It's hard to respond to the entire Special Committee when you all decide to "work."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1712429)

You're doing that on purpose now. It's a hallmark of DALPA web monitors on flight pay loss. I've never said Delta pilots were co-opted by management, I've said our union is. You knew that however and were hoping to slip that by. Shameful. I would have hoped for more skill from my flight pay loss dollars.

As you well know, my disdain is for our unelected MEC admins, a few of our reps, and the national organization. Not Delta pilots. But again, you knew that.

Carl

All I did was Google this stuff. You want to know what's beneath you? I show you proof you are wrong and you continue to lie and then accuse me of having some ALPA position as if that will make the truth disappear?

That was the opener big guy. Like it or not, it was conceptual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1712411)

Is that the price of safety? The "hotels in domicile" sounds like a plausible solution on the surface... until you realize that most guys would probably just go home anyway and do whatever it is they wanted to do that motivated them to bid the CDO in the first place. They STILL wouldn't be getting 8 hours of sleep and they STILL would be flying that early morning flight on maybe 3 or 4 hours of sleep in the 24 hour period. It would be legal on paper (except maybe the part about how they didn't give themselves an opportunity for 8 hours of sleep per FAR 117) but I sure wouldn't put my family on that flight.