Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 1897529)

This is a good thought-provoker - thanks for posting it.

I'm at a loss explaining the company's timing of the $5B buyback through this lens. Perhaps it was a late-game decision and they simply HAD to announce on the front side of a TA to avoid a massive revolt if they were to announce on the back side? I have to believe that the price point of any pilot who is paying attention went way up after seeing management throw $5B to the wind (and themselves) so easily.

It was an alpha-dog move made by management to slap our "union" guys in the face similar to an abusive husband who knows his wife has nowhere else to go. They did the exact same thing before the TA vote in 2012 when Richard and Ed came out with their interviews calling our new contract cost neutral. They called it a contract while it was still a TA, then referred to it as cost neutral. A totally unnecessary slap in the face to the very "union" officials that gave them the concessions to make the cost neutral claim.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho (Post 1897548)

I'd CONSIDER this, but, look at ALL parts of the contract!
Too many look at JUST pay rates.
Medical, Sick Leave, Profit Sharing, Work Rules, etc.
Look at everything BEFORE biting on pay rates.

Not a single one of these items matter one bit if they don't apply to you. Your first look should be Section 1 Scope.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenX (Post 1897558)

Seems to me they should be made aware. The 80,000 might have something to say about losing PS during record profits. They might find nobody is listening and they need to find a voice for themselves. Last thing I would want is some small group of people speaking for me. Especially if their going to give up PS during record profits. Might be the final straw for some. Likewise I would not want to give up PS knowing other groups are going to keep it, if that's the case.

Many questions that need to be answered to the masses publicly to make and informed vote. One thing to consider among other things. However, this one thing affects many. As they say Delta airlines, 80,000 STRONG.

If the non-pilot employees at Delta want to protect their profit sharing, let them go out and also be represented by a pretend union.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigflya (Post 1897519)

Captains will vote that one away in a heartbeat. Their tired of their FO's making a lot more than them for less work. I see your angle on better trips but still effects less than 50% of the pilots. I've had s few of those and do not want to see them go away. The savings from that in regards to manning and GS's will help fund whatever raises we get.

Maybe, and that is the problem. It is very easy for management to pick us apart, and it will require very strong leadership from DALPA to counter this.

The "What are you willing to give up for that" mentality will allow management to successfully eliminate many of our QOL items if they don't very clearly affect a majority of our Pilots.

For example, if the company wants CDOs - they put it on their wish list add a value to it and let the divisiveness begin. Many guys figure they are senior enough to avoid them and so it is accepted by the majority.

Vacation. We lost one or two weeks over the years for one reason or another - this only affects the senior most Pilots so a lot of guys are not very motivated to get it back if it costs something else. QOL item gone forever.

Sick Leave. Easy, frame it as an issue that will only affect "sick leave abusers." I doubt any one considers themselves a sick leave abuser so despite the dire warnings of some foresighted Pilots the Pilot group as a whole signs off on a more restrictive sick leave policy.

Scope. Senior Captains are not directly impacted by small jet scope - should they not care about that?

Should Pilots who live in base be willing to give up commuting policy for a few more $$$?

Do you see what I am saying? The company can frame many QOL issues as those that only affect a small group of Pilots, thus making it a lot easier to get concessions through. The union can and should be much more effective at preventing this than the Pilot group as a whole.

Over a few supposed "up contracts" we end up "selling" a lot of our QOL issues. Eventually we are all flying 85-90 hours a month and wondering how this happened.

One final point. Many items that do not affect individuals at a point in time will certainly affect them over the course of a 30+ year career.

Plenty of guys live in base and don't think they will ever commute but who knows. Young guys will at some time injure themselves and need disability etc.

We cannot allow management to pick us apart and get us to sell individual QOL items. We must defend every single QOL item as if our very quality of life depends on it.

Scoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1897462)

Ditto Scoop. A MUCH different environment. I've emailed all my Reps.

Denny

My lawyer speaks for me:cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenX (Post 1897545)

If the pilots give up PS will the other employee groups lose some as well?

I wonder how 80,000 employees would feel about that if they knew that the pilots MEC and ultimately pilot vote had their PS in their hands? I wonder if those 80,000 are aware of this? Talk about pressure........Or is this going to be like the pensions that only pilots give back and everybody else keeps? The benefits of voting indirectly for all come with draw backs I guess. I guess it would suck to not have a union and lose PS at the whim of some other group.

Many questions without answers. If my PS where in the hands of another group I would want answers.

Not my problem.........

One of the biggest walk off in a huff and me not asking for anything to eat or drink was with an ATL flight attendant who was ranting that she didn't want a union......especially when she found out I was a north guy. Anyway, I tried to be nice.......told her I didn't care (I don't) but finally I said "look, you have a union.....it's called ALPA, I just wish you would help out with the dues thingie".

Didn't go over well.......but I hope you see my point. I could care less if other groups have a union or not. But, if they are going to enjoy what we may or may not get, they need to pay us dues:D

Ferd

An unsigned letter from the MEC begging for "patience."

Why can't someone sign it? How about Donatelli. He's ultimately responsible. Why won't he sign? **** poor leadership.

deleted........

not important..........

Waiting to see what really happens next week

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanCrosser (Post 1897538)

Bigflya,

Since I am a very senior captain in a very senior category, I have never been jealous of my F/O making more money than myself. I have always encouraged and supported their efforts to capitalize on the different nuances of our contract.

All the best,

OC

I'm in the same situation, I live on 75 hours a month and a total of 3 GS's in 30 years. I could care less what a FO makes. This job is as much about time off as W-2's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1897241)

Are you ready to wait 3 years like SWAPA?

I certainly am. Especially if this agreement includes onerous concessions such as the rumored sick leave give back, FO LCA bidding take back, or profit sharing degradation. Any ONE of these is a no vote from me. I'm sick of getting "rolled" by DL management.