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[QUOTE=gloopy;1897439]Huge portion?
Ask you reps if the doors are closed? |
Originally Posted by Bananie
(Post 1897415)
I know this is your mantra but no one believes that anymore, try again. Hiring over 1000 pilots 800 or 900 Captain upgrades, what concessions equaled my 100,000? It just doesn't add up to anyone. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
Is it MORE or NEW? |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1897293)
It's all hypothetical right now.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more. Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle. |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1897385)
This will be my last contract. The only way I'll even look at Section 3 is if Section 1 is strengthened. If we give one single concession in scope, I'm a NO.
Carl On another subject: It occurs to me that all this talk about various concessions and what is and is not acceptable is the end result of a long and deliberate campaign of expectation-setting. It began nearly a year ago with Richard declaring his wish to have a contract ahead of time. This was repeated often until it became a widely held expectation that we would have a contract ahead of time - even the company wanted it! Followed and reinforced by the "On TimeOn Target" slogan from DALPA. Various social media grenades about at-risk compensation to start that conversation going. Frequent negotiations updates that never contained any real information but strongly emphasized the historically fast nature of the negotiations and how much this showed the company's commitment. The company using the check airman corps to spread rumors of their wish list, such as the oft-repeated claim that our sick time usage is much higher than other pilots or our productivity is far lower. A nearly constant barrage of rumors throughout negotiations from dubious sources, often conflicting but most generally concerning various concessions that had supposedly already been granted. The cumulative effect is one of induced negotiation fatigue - only a couple months into negotiations and well before our current contract expires! - and a reflexively defensive posture in what ought to be a wildly positive negotiating environment. Somewhere at Ford & Harrison, there is a powerpoint file that was presented 2 years ago that outlined this precise strategy. They have some of the world's best corporate psychologists working for them. They know the pilot psyche very well. In preparation for giving this TA an honest and thorough evaluation, we need to consider the effects of the company's manipulations on our own state of mind, and apply countermeasures. Think back over everything that has happened the last six months, realize that nearly every single step was likely intentional, and consider what the intended effect on your attitude was. Before these manipulations, what was your evaluation of the health of the company and industry and your expectations for your next contract? This will make a good yardstick by which to measure the coming TA. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1897486)
Not selling anything- but seriously, are we really this hooked on profit sharing... WE WORK FOR AN AIRLINE. We're going to be in the red again, guaranteed, probably within the decade. RA has probably single digit years with us left.
I have a price for portions of profit sharing turned into actual increases in pay rates and soft pay (I'm ALL about soft pay- that way it looks like we make less to the other groups). Here's the catch: When PS trade deducted out, what is left in the TA has to be appropriate gains in this environment. As you mentioned, it's an airline, which means it WILL be in red again. PS doesn't mean squat if there's NO PROFIT. 10/5/5/5 and 20% DC? Rhetorical.......... But IOW, a "hard" trade for the PS? Take last year's PS and try to put it in a solid/tangible pay column. |
Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1897522)
100% agreed. It's Section 1 for a reason.
On another subject: It occurs to me that all this talk about various concessions and what is and is not acceptable is the end result of a long and deliberate campaign of expectation-setting. It began nearly a year ago with Richard declaring his wish to have a contract ahead of time. This was repeated often until it became a widely held expectation that we would have a contract ahead of time - even the company wanted it! Followed and reinforced by the "On TimeOn Target" slogan from DALPA. Various social media grenades about at-risk compensation to start that conversation going. Frequent negotiations updates that never contained any real information but strongly emphasized the historically fast nature of the negotiations and how much this showed the company's commitment. The company using the check airman corps to spread rumors of their wish list, such as the oft-repeated claim that our sick time usage is much higher than other pilots or our productivity is far lower. A nearly constant barrage of rumors throughout negotiations from dubious sources, often conflicting but most generally concerning various concessions that had supposedly already been granted. The cumulative effect is one of induced negotiation fatigue - only a couple months into negotiations and well before our current contract expires! - and a reflexively defensive posture in what ought to be a wildly positive negotiating environment. Somewhere at Ford & Harrison, there is a powerpoint file that was presented 2 years ago that outlined this precise strategy. They have some of the world's best corporate psychologists working for them. They know the pilot psyche very well. In preparation for giving this TA an honest and thorough evaluation, we need to consider the effects of the company's manipulations on our own state of mind, and apply countermeasures. Think back over everything that has happened the last six months, realize that nearly every single step was likely intentional, and consider what the intended effect on your attitude was. Before these manipulations, what was your evaluation of the health of the company and industry and your expectations for your next contract? This will make a good yardstick by which to measure the coming TA. I'm at a loss explaining the company's timing of the $5B buyback through this lens. Perhaps it was a late-game decision and they simply HAD to announce on the front side of a TA to avoid a massive revolt if they were to announce on the back side? I have to believe that the price point of any pilot who is paying attention went way up after seeing management throw $5B to the wind (and themselves) so easily. |
...scratch that... I don't HAVE to believe it, but I HOPE pilots realize what the buyback proves is possible and deserved.
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Originally Posted by Bigflya
(Post 1897519)
Captains will vote that one away in a heartbeat. Their tired of their FO's making a lot more than them for less work. I see your angle on better trips but still effects less than 50% of the pilots. I've had s few of those and do not want to see them go away. The savings from that in regards to manning and GS's will help fund whatever raises we get.
Since I am a very senior captain in a very senior category, I have never been jealous of my F/O making more money than myself. I have always encouraged and supported their efforts to capitalize on the different nuances of our contract. All the best, OC |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1897293)
It's all hypothetical right now.
Unfortunately, everyone is hyper focused on pay rates. I understand that, but there is so much more. Every FO should be up in arms about LCA trips removed from their bidding options as an example. And frankly, I cannot imagine the union would even consider it. However, it's as strong a rumor as pay rates. Disclaimer, I don't work that angle, but get better trips because more senior guys do work that angle. |
I hope this is is discussed at the open meeting--specifically, how many fewer pilots will be needed as a result.
I can't fathom how any FO rep, if he's really representing his FOs, could possibly vote yes to a TA with any such provision |
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