And don't forget the time value of NOT making concessions.

Our problem is that our union is not panicked to grab this deal quickly because they want to lock in our gains, they're panicked at the thought of not locking in management's requested concessions. That's our reality.

Carl

This will be my last contract. The only way I'll even look at Section 3 is if Section 1 is strengthened. If we give one single concession in scope, I'm a NO.

Carl

Directly from my LEC during C2012...

How can a reduction in my profit sharing (return on investment in delta) by 5 percent over the next 20 years equal only 2 percent of a 1-year increase?
The profit sharing for the entire employee group is being reduced from 15 percent to 10 percent of the first $2.5B of pre-tax income. The pilot group’s share of that payout is roughly one-third, or 5 percent (1/3 of 15%) under the old formula and 3.33 percent (1/3 of 10%) under the TA. Here is how the math works out:
Under today’s profit-sharing plan, should Delta have a pretax income of $2.5B, the 15% payout would yield $375M for all eligible employees. Of
that, the pilot group would share roughly one-third, or $125M. Under the TA, that amount will be reduced to $83M, with the remaining $42M having been con- verted into additional pay rates that are received up front and throughout the year.
Now consider that in 2011, Delta had a pretax income of $1.522B. The 15% payout yielded $228M, of which the pilot group received roughly one-third, or $76M. Under the TA, that amount would have been reduced to $51M, but the pilot group would still have received the same $42M in additional pay rates up front throughout the year as described above, for a total payout of $93M or $17M more than had profit sharing not been con- verted to pay.
Because the profit-sharing payout above $2.5B has not been changed, we will see no difference in payouts above that amount should Delta’s pretax income exceed it.



Now I'm just spitballing some basic math here, but basically the PS giveback during C2012 was approximately $42 million/year for the past 3 years. (1/3 of 5% on $2.5 billion)

That amounts to approximately $3,500 divided evenly amongst roughly 12,000 pilots. I don't really like percentages because they have a tendency of clouding facts to persuade an opinion.

That being said...
For a pilot who made $100K that amounted to 3.5% giveback.
For a pilot who made $200K that amounted to 1.8% giveback.

The percentages above are all in relation to gross pay because that is what we use to calculate our individual payouts. I'm not really concerned on how the 42 millions divided up, but it's a point with merit seeing as cumulatively we gave up $126 million in C2012.

I didn't write the above to persuade anyone, mearly wanted to show how misleading percentages can be at times.

I'll take a look at my W-2 and get back to you, but honestly 87 hours per month seems high to me. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I typically fly between 75-80.

What? Why would DENNYCRANE care about another lawyer's opinion?

Carl

I know this is your mantra but no one believes that anymore, try again. Hiring over 1000 pilots 800 or 900 Captain upgrades, what concessions equaled my 100,000? It just doesn't add up to anyone. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

TVM is a valid point, up to a point.

But you also have to consider the time cost of concessions.

If the rumors are even 1/4 true about what's being given up, it is WAY better to wind the watch and wait as long as it takes, even 3-5 years, rather than eating layered deep concessions for a paltry slightly higher than inflation paid for raise. Not even close. Easy button.

A 20% raise right now with no concessions would pass MEC and MEMRAT guaranteed.

But that's not what we're dealing with now, is it?

There's also no concessions next year if we vote no to concessions this year.

Even that might pass. But then back out the time value of concessions, which if even a fraction are true are big ticket "shopping cart" items.

No thanks.

It's not my mantra, it's Richard's and Ed's mantra. They would pay a legal penalty for making a false public statement...you won't.

If you want to make the case that C2012 didn't have concessions, knock yourself out.

It adds up to Richard and Ed, and they have the data...you don't.

But it will probably get you some flight pay loss Bananie. You're a loyal soldier.

Carl