Details on Delta TA
08-24-2014 | 05:41 AM
#831
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
That's why people who crow about the progress of Delta/Northwest as being proof of the appeasement strategy's success are doing so while ignoring the fact that our other competitors in the race are/were in quicksand. That does not mean you're good at racing.
Carl
08-24-2014 | 05:54 AM
#832
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
You win again.
08-24-2014 | 06:08 AM
#833
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
My point in all this is to get people to stop talking about leverage because it's putting the cart before the horse. First you must develop a strategy to actually USE the leverage. Our MEC is consistently silent on any methodology to USE leverage. That's because our union has been successfully co-opted by Delta management. What Richard learned best while working for Frank Lorenzo is that you can't win against a union by attacking them head on. He's learned that you remove the labor risk inherent in a union, by owning the union.
Carl
Last edited by Carl Spackler; 08-24-2014 at 06:35 AM.
08-24-2014 | 06:32 AM
#834
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
08-24-2014 | 09:12 AM
#835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 0
It is not a valid comparison. Then again, most people here know that.
08-24-2014 | 09:23 AM
#836
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
What a clASSless act! This is how you treat your brethren pilots, your coworkers and fellow professionals? Have you ever met or spoken to all of them? Because our fellow pilot VOLUNTEERS don't see it the same way as you, you result to name calling? What an immature, clASSless act you are Carl.
08-24-2014 | 09:43 AM
#837
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Do you advocate that Lee Moaks quotes in the recent article did us no harm for future negotiations? Until he puts out in writing that the article misquoted him 100%, I have to believe it printed what he said and what he meant. PUB conversations don't change that. The recent widget refers to the importance of being truthful. Is labor unrest really off the table?
08-24-2014 | 09:58 AM
#838
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
I believe that is correct. Last I saw, I think their actual rate (based on TFP) was $186. The big difference back around the time of C2012 was that their TFP system, work rules, and their ability to pick up premium pay resulted in a W2 that averaged over $240K (for Captains), without having to work a lot of extra days. Since that time, my understanding is their situation has resulted in a lot less opportunity for premium pay... so we probably are ahead of them now. Of course, our rates are 34% below the buying power they had 10 years ago... so we've got that going for us.
08-24-2014 | 09:59 AM
#839
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
08-24-2014 | 10:07 AM
#840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
You might want to change the batteries in your calculator SF.
1.15 x $270 = $310.50, which is still $9/hr. below our 2004 pay rate, 11 years later, oh, and 11 years ago we had a DB plan too!
Also, the JNB trip is 5 days, not 3.
Just about nobody with a regular line can greenslip one due to the new FAR's. (100 in 28). If you already have a 78hr. line, you can't add a 32hr. trip to it in most cases. There are lots of them in open time that can't be picked up, or assigned as GS, except to a reserve, who might be using rolling thunder, if he's smart, but he won't get double pay for the trip, just 32hrs. over the cap. That new FAR has become a bidding-math nightmare, month to month, but it has also required more pilots at the top, which is good for everyone.
And for 76 driver, I think that SW rate you are looking at is their 'trip pay' which is less than one hour. Converted to one hour, they are right up there with our 777/747 rates.
If I run for MEC Chairman, can I count on your support? How's your strike fund funded? It's nice that we no longer have the "Golden Handcuffs" of a DB plan to worry about if we do walk.
Your point about ATC taking 11 years to replace 11 thousand controllers only strengthens my point, they can't replace all of us overnight.
Now, if we could get some industry wide support from the other two majors airlines, that would help us all. Why there was no call for a National SOS when we all started losing our pay/retirements is beyond me. Absent that leverage, what do you have left to negotiate with?
I wonder what our MEC discussed with the other ALPA groups, AA and the SWAPA in Chicago? I hope it was finding some mutual ground for support to get the RLA changed.
1.15 x $270 = $310.50, which is still $9/hr. below our 2004 pay rate, 11 years later, oh, and 11 years ago we had a DB plan too!
Also, the JNB trip is 5 days, not 3.
Just about nobody with a regular line can greenslip one due to the new FAR's. (100 in 28). If you already have a 78hr. line, you can't add a 32hr. trip to it in most cases. There are lots of them in open time that can't be picked up, or assigned as GS, except to a reserve, who might be using rolling thunder, if he's smart, but he won't get double pay for the trip, just 32hrs. over the cap. That new FAR has become a bidding-math nightmare, month to month, but it has also required more pilots at the top, which is good for everyone.
And for 76 driver, I think that SW rate you are looking at is their 'trip pay' which is less than one hour. Converted to one hour, they are right up there with our 777/747 rates.
If I run for MEC Chairman, can I count on your support? How's your strike fund funded? It's nice that we no longer have the "Golden Handcuffs" of a DB plan to worry about if we do walk.
Your point about ATC taking 11 years to replace 11 thousand controllers only strengthens my point, they can't replace all of us overnight.
Now, if we could get some industry wide support from the other two majors airlines, that would help us all. Why there was no call for a National SOS when we all started losing our pay/retirements is beyond me. Absent that leverage, what do you have left to negotiate with?
I wonder what our MEC discussed with the other ALPA groups, AA and the SWAPA in Chicago? I hope it was finding some mutual ground for support to get the RLA changed.
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