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08-24-2014 | 10:53 AM

#841

sailingfun

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2008

Posts: 20,877

Likes: 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager

Why do you continue to add profit sharing to any of our rates?

It is not a valid comparison. Then again, most people here know that.

I think that is the first time I have mentioned profit sharing with the rates. When SW was getting profit sharing and Delta was not it was certainly mentioned often on the forums. Personally I would rather monetize the profit sharing and have it built into the rates. Most on here feel differently and seem to value it greatly. Profits in the airline industry go away fast.

08-24-2014 | 10:56 AM

#842

sailingfun

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2008

Posts: 20,877

Likes: 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamer

Don't ruin the attempted sales job with logic like TFP conversions, actual W2 pay, non-guaranteed pay like PS etc. not to mention the basic failure where we are comparing 777 pay to 737 pay. Let's just start 73 to 73 and do w2/TAFB. It will blow your mind how far ahead SWA still is.

Delta's block our cost to staff a 737 is well above SW for 2013 the last year the data is out for. We are almost 20% above them.

08-24-2014 | 11:33 AM

#843

DAL 88 Driver

At home on the maddog!

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 2,874

Likes: 0

From: Retired (mandatory age 65)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Delta's block our cost to staff a 737 is well above SW for 2013 the last year the data is out for. We are almost 20% above them.

Well boo frickin hoo... I don't CARE if our "cost" to staff a 737 is higher. SWA has efficiencies built into their business model that Delta can only dream about. And Delta has revenue potential built into our business model that SWA can only dream about.

What matters in this comparison is how much we make. (And, really, I think the comparison should be SWA 737 to Delta MD-88/90, based on the type of flying done and number of pax carried.) If the average SWA Captain is making more, then that's a relevant data point that could be used in helping to make the case for increasing/restoring our pay.

Don't get so lost in the MIT data, sailingfun. There's more to the story than that.

08-24-2014 | 11:51 AM

#844

76drvr

Banned

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 474

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You're trying to move the goal posts by discussing delta dot. This is what you said earlier:
Carl

Carl, no moving of goal posts, you are confusing two separate discussions. One was a discussion of the use of Section 3.B.6 to establish 777 pay rates pre C2K, otherwise known as the "Delta Dot", the other conversation you refer to is pattern bargaining off of the United rates during a cooling off period at the end of C2K. Two completely different negotiations, using completely different forms of leverage.

08-24-2014 | 11:53 AM

#845

Herkflyr

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jul 2007

Posts: 2,562

Likes: 106

From: Road construction signholder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

How would you know that sailingfun? You mean to tell me that DALPA released its opening position to the pilots back then?

Oh the humanity.

Carl

DALPA did release its opening position. It was $346 an hour while the current highest pilot rate in the world was $223 an hour (NWA 744A). We "settled" at $265/hr. You wouldn't believe the amount of beotching, moaning and groaning that ensued after that (from the pilots, not mgmt). You would have thought we agreed to a pay CUT. Same lament as now, different day ("we are pushovers, mgmt won again, when will we fight?" etc etc etc)

Funny, those same guys are now the ones most proud of what we achieved back then.

08-24-2014 | 11:54 AM

#846

76drvr

Banned

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 474

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

Do you advocate that Lee Moaks quotes in the recent article did us no harm for future negotiations?

I haven't advocate any such thing. Focus grasshopper, focus.

08-24-2014 | 12:06 PM

#847

76drvr

Banned

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 474

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg

I now see the light. Thank you.

I think we should ......insert redirect here.

Fixed it for you. Let's go back to the original question Jerry.

"So how would you leverage the training waterfall?

If you are just going to watch it, how long are you going to watch it and how does watching it create the leverage?"

Jerry, at that point you advocated negotiating a productivity concession:

"If, we grant any relief it must be of limited duration.

I.e. if we flex more hours it would be for 4 months a year for 2 years."

My next question to you, which you have yet to answer was:

"So we trade a productivity concession for pay?

How much do you think this productivity concession you propose is worth, particularly if its only for 4 months? Do you think that RA will write a billion dollars worth of improvements in our contract for this concession?"

Can we have a thoughtful discussion on the leverage you believe we have, what it's value is and how we can use it to improve our contract?

08-24-2014 | 12:08 PM

#848

Purple Drank

Straight QOL, homie

Joined: Feb 2012

Posts: 4,202

Likes: 1

From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator

I think we've identified this weekend's "on call" management/DALPA web board fireman (he's carrying plenty of water).

The only question now is how much FPL and/or comp time he's receiving.

08-24-2014 | 12:29 PM

#849

76drvr

Banned

Joined: Aug 2011

Posts: 474

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Drank

I think we've identified this weekend's "on call" management/DALPA web board fireman (he's carrying plenty of water).

The only question now is how much FPL and/or comp time he's receiving.

Is that black helicopter back again?