For myself and the pilots I have personally spoken to, it simply boils down to this question. BTW, I have 4 personal friends who voted Yes for TA2012 (I was a fence guy but voted no) that are all no on TA2015. (think hell no)

Are the small gains (which I GUARANTEE were smaller than any survey results) worth the concessions being given up? No Way, not in any way, shape or form.

The NC committee, who may be the best guys in the world, produced a flawed and inferior product given the economic environment we are currently in and what is forecasted.

Add in the rant, shenanigans at the road shows and skewed emailings, I feel I may be in the majority this time.

I am completely at ease getting my potential 3% raises due to UAL/AMR/other work groups and the current PS formula.

I also play a lot of cards and know when your holding pocket 6's, but think you are representing a set. Stop representing a monster hand when you really have pocket 6's and are first to act.

 

Serious question because I keep hearing this.

Can you show me the 3.B.4 math that will get me a 3% raise YOY? Please cite specific pay tables from AA and UA. I keep hearing how this will mitigate TVM but I haven't taken the time to look into it yet.

I've only it payout the half percent that we just got. I'd like to believe you but I'm not getting a warm feeling about 3.B.4 being our secret weapon.

 

I personally am a "no" even without the 3%.

This TA is so far out of bounds on sick leave, trip pulls, and scope it's nauseating.

This TA was meant to break our backs. And it will if we approve it.

 

I am assuming, which may be right/wrong, that we will see some sort of raise due to UAL/AMR/ other employee groups getting a little something. BUT

I am also OK with no pay raise, current profit sharing vs concessions of TA2015

 

The .55 percent payout was a result of American's new contract and pay rates. 3.B.4 says we must be at 100% of the Average of UA and AA 757 CA rates (UA blended tate of -300/-200)...provided 30% of the other workers get a raise. UA and AA will both be getting 3% raises each of the next few years. This will activate 3.B.4 and continue to give us raises until their contracts run out (current profit sharing in place too!)...if we maintain status quo. I don't understand why the unions slides don't show 3.B.4 when showing the total compensation comparisons between 2015 no-deal in 2018 and 2018 TA. Can this be explained?

The union sent out an e-mail on April 1, 2015 explaining the raise. E-Mail was titled CA Bulletin 15-05. What happened to this clause when comparing the TA to no-deal?

The e-mail also said "all Delta employees" have received a pay raise.

With 3.B.4, it looks like concessions for free

 

Leine,

Serious question; Are you a P2P guy?

The sense I get from the P2P message is that it is this deal or nothing. It seems to me that the company has more to lose with a failed TA than the pilots. Are these raises so "historic" that we should accept a bunch of concessions? I don't think these pay increases are enough even without the concessions.

I don't think 3.B.4 is a secret weapon, but isn't it interesting that this TA will change the formula for it to include PS. American doesn't have PS. Why would the company want to change it if it's not a lever of some value? On top of that, this TA will change the way PS is calculated to remove the executives share, lowering ours. Why do you think they want to do that?

The bottom line is that this TA is not worth as much as C2012, yet the company is about five times as profitable. I can hardly believe DALPA let it get this far. If the company were losing money and the industry trends were on a downward trajectory, I would understand and agree. As we all know, that is not the case. I am former NW. I think you are too. Remember when RA gave us 10% for a one year contract extension. That wasn't during record profits. That was at a time when the whole industry was starting to go over the cliff. We got 10% with no concessions at all. Now we're making record profits and you think this is the best we can do? Sounds like the P2P message to me.

 

3b4 only comes into effect if the other employees are granted a raise. The company could try and get around that with bonuses ect.. Instead of a raise.
Referencing the earlier post the raise would in fact be 3% for us since UAL and AMR both get 3% raises on 1 Jan if Delta gives out a general raise.

 

Sailingfun,

Keep reading that section. It specifically talks about the 'bonus situation' and any bonus awarded to them is considered the same as a raise!

We would get the same payout as their bonus.

 

Like I said, I will take NO RAISE and keep current PS vs TA 2015.

Time to change the water in the tub. Anyone that still gets called by his call sign is OUT!

 

Amen brother boog!

Carl