Am I the only one?
06-27-2015 | 06:35 PM
#11
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
What did you think that rocking chair was for?
But back before bankruptcy, we had the "Golden Handcuffs" on us, that was the DB plan. The senior Captains were not about to risk their retirement plans by going out on strike, so they were going to show up for work, or retire early.
Now those handcuffs have been removed. We no longer have a DB plan to worry about. We all have money in our own names, just not enough to retire on, but enough to sit out a work stoppage.
Did anyone think Richard was just going to throw money at us, without a fight? Really? Seriously? After what you just saw in 2012, where they opened with zero percent raises and we had to trade profit sharing to get those two 3% raises?? Really?
As soon as I heard Mike Campbell was coming out of retirement to negotiate for the company again, I knew we were going to see more of the same.
At a time when the company is making $6-10 Billion a year, they have a lot more to fear with Labor Risk than we do.
06-27-2015 | 06:56 PM
#12
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Purple, sounds like a good movie night. Inside Out was great fun and creative. Pitch Perfect 2, hilarious.
As to our careers. I think constructive engagement, ie a marriage between us and DAL, is an interesting and compelling idea that had a massive flaw- we were part of a polygamous relationship the entire time. Scope is everything and they were chipping away at both ends.
I think RA is very good for us, but I don't think this TA is RA. Seems as if someone else is getting their chance at the helm and it makes me think we are headed to the relationship CAL pilots had with their post Bethune management.
As to our careers. I think constructive engagement, ie a marriage between us and DAL, is an interesting and compelling idea that had a massive flaw- we were part of a polygamous relationship the entire time. Scope is everything and they were chipping away at both ends.
I think RA is very good for us, but I don't think this TA is RA. Seems as if someone else is getting their chance at the helm and it makes me think we are headed to the relationship CAL pilots had with their post Bethune management.
06-27-2015 | 06:57 PM
#13
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
In my 30 years at Delta, I have seen 5 management teams and 8 contract negotiations. The only contract where we got a significant raise and retro active pay was in C2K, and that took 18 months of fighting with management, and a slogan, "Restore the Profession", and we did...for 4 years.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
06-27-2015 | 07:03 PM
#14
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
I just spent a few minutes on the Delta Net listening to "Right from Richard" the 6-26-15 edition (last Friaday). Just listen to the first two minutes, where he talks about Delta's performance, Delta's debt, and operational statistics.
What do you think is going to happen if the pilots are pizzed off because we are "Parked" ?
I've been there, done that, and I can tell you it will hurt Richard a LOT more than it will hurt us. He can pay us now, or he can pay us later, but make no mistake, Richard does not hold an ATP.
He cannot operate over 2000 flights a day in all kinds of weather by himself.
What do you think is going to happen if the pilots are pizzed off because we are "Parked" ?
I've been there, done that, and I can tell you it will hurt Richard a LOT more than it will hurt us. He can pay us now, or he can pay us later, but make no mistake, Richard does not hold an ATP.
He cannot operate over 2000 flights a day in all kinds of weather by himself.
06-27-2015 | 07:10 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
From: 767A
This goes on all the time, buying a car, house etc. Your salesman just strolled back from the breakroom and said the manager won't take your offer, this is the best he can do. Let him watch you drive across the street to the Ford/Nissan/VW dealer.
What will give us the most leverage, turning this down 49/51 or 90/10?
What will give us the most leverage, turning this down 49/51 or 90/10?
06-27-2015 | 07:34 PM
#17
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
This goes on all the time, buying a car, house etc. Your salesman just strolled back from the breakroom and said the manager won't take your offer, this is the best he can do. Let him watch you drive across the street to the Ford/Nissan/VW dealer.
What will give us the most leverage, turning this down 49/51 or 90/10?
What will give us the most leverage, turning this down 49/51 or 90/10?
It can be done on a micro and macro scale.
06-27-2015 | 07:35 PM
#18
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
06-27-2015 | 07:56 PM
#20
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
I owed the wife dinner and a movie earlier tonight, so we went to a Thai place she loves, and then she wanted to see Ted 2.
That's the one with the little Teddy Bear and Mark Walberg. It was pretty funny, especially the Tom Brady and Jay Leno cameos, but you'd have to be a Red Sox/Bruins/Patriots/Celtics fan to get some of the jokes or to understand much of the language!
Luckily I speak Boston.
