C44 Chariman's desperate email.
#1
C44 Chairman's desperate email.
Interesting email from the C44 Chairman.
He's sounding desperate and trying to appeal to the fears of what happens if the the TA does not pass.
What I find more interesting is that he mentions "over 60 percent of pilots voting"...
This tells me that DALPA has the means to track some of the voting tabulations prior to the vote closing.
This alarms me.
I thought there was NO access to any voting information until the vote closes.
That is clearly not the case. If DALPA knows that "over 60 percent of the pilots voting" has occurred....what other information are they privy to?
Does anyone know what information is provided to DALPA about the vote process while it is ongoing?
Do they know the number of "yes" and "no" voters?
He's sounding desperate and trying to appeal to the fears of what happens if the the TA does not pass.
What I find more interesting is that he mentions "over 60 percent of pilots voting"...
This tells me that DALPA has the means to track some of the voting tabulations prior to the vote closing.
This alarms me.
I thought there was NO access to any voting information until the vote closes.
That is clearly not the case. If DALPA knows that "over 60 percent of the pilots voting" has occurred....what other information are they privy to?
Does anyone know what information is provided to DALPA about the vote process while it is ongoing?
Do they know the number of "yes" and "no" voters?
Last edited by ImTumbleweed; 07-03-2015 at 07:46 PM.
#3
Here, just post the whole thing and not the "approve" emphasis is his, not mine:
Fellow pilots,
As of today, over 60% of our pilot group has voted on the tentative agreement. I want to personally thank all of you for taking the time to do your homework and make an informed decision. Contract ratification is one of the biggest decisions you will make in your career as a Delta pilot and no other decision will have as profound an impact on that career.
The details of the agreement have been sent to you along with several Council 44 Communiqués from us, your reps; I will not revisit all the changes again, but I will offer my overall perspective on both the agreement and our careers moving forward from this point. This TA did not meet the expectations of many pilots, and I understand that clearly. Expectations from the outset were driven by the outstanding success of our company and, to some degree, by your union. This agreement does address the top three issues we heard from C44 pilots; pay, reroute and trip mix. Even considering those areas that may cause you concern, you must know that this agreement, section for section, is indisputably industry leading in every respect, including the highest pay rates ever achieved.
Last month, the majority of the MEC voted to approve this agreement for membership ratification. I did so because after months of analysis and debate, I believed that it was the best choice for Delta pilots. It was not an easy choice, nor a popular one to defend, but no path or plan offered a better chance to increase overall value for Delta pilots. In fact, the alternatives come with substantial downside risk.
I don’t believe that denying Delta pilots the decision to ratify an industry-leading contract when the alternative could yield less would have been the right thing to do; I share this view with my fellow C44 reps, and we made this clear in our communication following the vote.
My decision is not based on fear, or made to gain respect or any other intangible or emotional feel-good goal. It is based on careful analysis of the gains in front of us right now, the current environment and what I see looking forward. It is based on my best pragmatic estimation of the prospect (or lack thereof) of achieving more with an alternate path. Finally, but certainly not least important, it is also based on our ability to continue to move forward and seize future opportunities as a labor union at Delta Air Lines.
While no one knows for certain what is behind “Door Number Two,” history, economics, company metrics, current events and a multitude of other data points strongly suggest to me that the outcome of extending our negotiations will yield less overall value than picking up these gains and moving forward.
Delta pilots are already compensated at the top of the industry, and this hasn’t come by accident or chance. We achieved that by continuing to seek out and seize opportunities. Much as Delta management has done with their business strategy, Delta pilots have continuously engaged in improving our careers and in my opinion have been more successful at it than any other pilot group in the industry. You’ve seen the graphs; with the passage of this agreement, hourly pay rates will increase by a total of 73% since 2008 when Delta and Northwest merged. No other pilot group has come close to accomplishing this.
In matters of scope, while some try to distract us with concerns about paint jobs, my focus is turned toward control language and the protections this agreement brings us in Section 1. This is vital in the face of near-certain new joint ventures, open skies agreements, ownership stakes and new threats to our careers. The new protections in Section 1 give us the ability to move forward and address both threats and the opportunities. It is vitally important that we continue to engage and re-engage our company on these issues in the future for further improvements as they become necessary.
Until now, as a council we have refrained from talking about “downside possibilities,” but they are very real. You are already several days into an 8% pay raise if this TA passes. While we tend to focus on whether the percentage increases are large enough, I can’t spend a percentage. This raise represents real money that will likely be lost if the TA fails. For an MD88 captain like me, the July raise will add $1,400 a month to my paycheck. For Delta pilots as a whole, the early pay raise adds $114 million to the value of our contract. For each and every day after January 1st, this agreement is worth $1 million a day. Should this TA fail, our prospects in recovering what we have now - let alone achieving more - shrink with each passing day. In other words, time is not on our side.
As for other possible outcomes, none of us can say with certainty where a failure to ratify might lead. There are however, examples that demonstrate how our management and managements across the industry have acted in similar circumstances. In my opinion, the negotiating pace will slow substantially, and our ability to engage the company when other opportunities arise will diminish. From a strategic viewpoint, that may be the most critical part of this decision. In the past several years, we have gained tremendously from our ability to engage management and work to a solution that benefits Delta pilots as the opportunities presented; we work for a solution, pocket the gains and move forward. Delta has a business plan; they will make decisions and move forward, with or without this deal, with or without us. I want to be involved.
It is my opinion that voting to ratify this agreement and move forward is the best choice for the Delta pilots. It brings us substantial value, brings it early, and positions us to continue the upward vector we are currently on. There is no such certainty in choosing otherwise. Debating whether the gains are great enough means you are already on the “win” side of the equation, and with ratification of this TA, in two years and nine months we will be negotiating a new agreement.
As always, thank you for your professionalism. Fly safe this weekend and Happy 4th of July!
As of today, over 60% of our pilot group has voted on the tentative agreement. I want to personally thank all of you for taking the time to do your homework and make an informed decision. Contract ratification is one of the biggest decisions you will make in your career as a Delta pilot and no other decision will have as profound an impact on that career.
The details of the agreement have been sent to you along with several Council 44 Communiqués from us, your reps; I will not revisit all the changes again, but I will offer my overall perspective on both the agreement and our careers moving forward from this point. This TA did not meet the expectations of many pilots, and I understand that clearly. Expectations from the outset were driven by the outstanding success of our company and, to some degree, by your union. This agreement does address the top three issues we heard from C44 pilots; pay, reroute and trip mix. Even considering those areas that may cause you concern, you must know that this agreement, section for section, is indisputably industry leading in every respect, including the highest pay rates ever achieved.
Last month, the majority of the MEC voted to approve this agreement for membership ratification. I did so because after months of analysis and debate, I believed that it was the best choice for Delta pilots. It was not an easy choice, nor a popular one to defend, but no path or plan offered a better chance to increase overall value for Delta pilots. In fact, the alternatives come with substantial downside risk.
I don’t believe that denying Delta pilots the decision to ratify an industry-leading contract when the alternative could yield less would have been the right thing to do; I share this view with my fellow C44 reps, and we made this clear in our communication following the vote.
My decision is not based on fear, or made to gain respect or any other intangible or emotional feel-good goal. It is based on careful analysis of the gains in front of us right now, the current environment and what I see looking forward. It is based on my best pragmatic estimation of the prospect (or lack thereof) of achieving more with an alternate path. Finally, but certainly not least important, it is also based on our ability to continue to move forward and seize future opportunities as a labor union at Delta Air Lines.
While no one knows for certain what is behind “Door Number Two,” history, economics, company metrics, current events and a multitude of other data points strongly suggest to me that the outcome of extending our negotiations will yield less overall value than picking up these gains and moving forward.
Delta pilots are already compensated at the top of the industry, and this hasn’t come by accident or chance. We achieved that by continuing to seek out and seize opportunities. Much as Delta management has done with their business strategy, Delta pilots have continuously engaged in improving our careers and in my opinion have been more successful at it than any other pilot group in the industry. You’ve seen the graphs; with the passage of this agreement, hourly pay rates will increase by a total of 73% since 2008 when Delta and Northwest merged. No other pilot group has come close to accomplishing this.
In matters of scope, while some try to distract us with concerns about paint jobs, my focus is turned toward control language and the protections this agreement brings us in Section 1. This is vital in the face of near-certain new joint ventures, open skies agreements, ownership stakes and new threats to our careers. The new protections in Section 1 give us the ability to move forward and address both threats and the opportunities. It is vitally important that we continue to engage and re-engage our company on these issues in the future for further improvements as they become necessary.
Until now, as a council we have refrained from talking about “downside possibilities,” but they are very real. You are already several days into an 8% pay raise if this TA passes. While we tend to focus on whether the percentage increases are large enough, I can’t spend a percentage. This raise represents real money that will likely be lost if the TA fails. For an MD88 captain like me, the July raise will add $1,400 a month to my paycheck. For Delta pilots as a whole, the early pay raise adds $114 million to the value of our contract. For each and every day after January 1st, this agreement is worth $1 million a day. Should this TA fail, our prospects in recovering what we have now - let alone achieving more - shrink with each passing day. In other words, time is not on our side.
As for other possible outcomes, none of us can say with certainty where a failure to ratify might lead. There are however, examples that demonstrate how our management and managements across the industry have acted in similar circumstances. In my opinion, the negotiating pace will slow substantially, and our ability to engage the company when other opportunities arise will diminish. From a strategic viewpoint, that may be the most critical part of this decision. In the past several years, we have gained tremendously from our ability to engage management and work to a solution that benefits Delta pilots as the opportunities presented; we work for a solution, pocket the gains and move forward. Delta has a business plan; they will make decisions and move forward, with or without this deal, with or without us. I want to be involved.
It is my opinion that voting to ratify this agreement and move forward is the best choice for the Delta pilots. It brings us substantial value, brings it early, and positions us to continue the upward vector we are currently on. There is no such certainty in choosing otherwise. Debating whether the gains are great enough means you are already on the “win” side of the equation, and with ratification of this TA, in two years and nine months we will be negotiating a new agreement.
As always, thank you for your professionalism. Fly safe this weekend and Happy 4th of July!
Last edited by forgot to bid; 07-03-2015 at 09:00 PM.
#5
Work, work, work. Contract.
Work, work, work. Rates.
Work, work, work. Rates.
Work, work, work. Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
Work, work, work, Rates.
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: DAL 757 FO
Posts: 192
Does anyone really believe that pay, reroute and trip mix were the top 3 things that C44 pilots were worried about on this TA?
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
#7
Does anyone really believe that pay, reroute and trip mix were the top 3 things that C44 pilots were worried about on this TA?
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
#8
Does anyone really believe that pay, reroute and trip mix were the top 3 things that C44 pilots were worried about on this TA?
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
Things like Profit Sharing, Scope, and leaving sick leave alone didn't even make the top 3?
Just remember everyone they're not selling us on this TA...
1) nobody said make the pay raise small and self funded with ps. If they said monetize PS they didnt mean in this way.
2) they said fix reroute by making any reroute punitive, and if your reroute extended you by even 1 minute, you got reroute pay. The new reroute language appliesto very rare scenarios and likely wont pay more than 1 to 2 days per year and only on some fleets
3) trip mix - ok? Higher TLV might fix some of that, but thats not a win. That's a concession.
And im pretty sure everyone said dont touch scope and dont are dont make sick leave worse haha.
Btw he said 60 percent have voted so far so out of 10,000 eligible pilots thats 6,000 votes. Based on the DPA exit poll we have 2700 no votes. Maybe add another 300 for those that didnt take the exit poll, and this vote is REALLY CLOSE. Sitting at 50/50 using that assumption. Yikes.
#9
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
I'll bet a lot of what would be 'yes' votes won't even vote, because, "It'll pass, it always does...". They can't bring themselves to vote yes, but they are too lazy to vote no.
And I'll bet a much larger portion of that 60% is voting NFW! Because they are so pizzed off at this POS.
What would be funny is if there were only 7-8000 votes cast, and it was 90%. No!
And I'll bet a much larger portion of that 60% is voting NFW! Because they are so pizzed off at this POS.
What would be funny is if there were only 7-8000 votes cast, and it was 90%. No!
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Our vacation is at the bottom. Nowhere near industry leading.
Vacation is critical to quality of life.
Delta TA 122:30 max hours
United 136:30
Alaska 143
UPS 175
FedEx 210
When Hermon is this clueless it disqualifies him as a rep.
Vacation is critical to quality of life.
Delta TA 122:30 max hours
United 136:30
Alaska 143
UPS 175
FedEx 210
When Hermon is this clueless it disqualifies him as a rep.
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