Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 1966003)

With respect to OE recovery, I posted this a couple weeks ago in the SLC Capt rep resigns thread. Applicable here:

Recovery:
It must include the following or NFW:
1. Drop trip paid 100%
2. Assigned Trip paid 100%
3. Assigned trip must fall in the footprint of the original trip, premium pay for anything outside.
4. Positive space to/from new trip
5. In base lodging provided if needed for assigned trip

This would give them the productivity they so desire and also benefit the pilot being removed for OE.

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 1966041)

This is still a concession if we agree to it and must be monetized accordingly. Personally, I prefer the choice WS or GS and whether I want to work, all though I always have picked up something.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1966047)

Any change would have to be a win for pilots and absolutely NO job losses. Not even one single job.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1965914)

If Orville's theory of extreme managerial angst over pilots staying home is true, then here's the fix: If FO is removed from trip for LCA, removed FO shall occupy a first class seat (domestic) or business class seat (international) for every leg of his bid trip. This is "important" to ensure operational integrity in case of trainee pilot illness or unsat performance.

This will obviously cost management thousands in lost revenue every leg and much more than letting the FO stay home, but at least that lazy FO won't be staying home. Let's see if that doesn't unmask what their real angst is over this.

Carl - Management's problem solver

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1966002)

It wouldn't be fleet dependent, it would be a contractual provision. The pulled FO must occupy a first class seat for every leg. That should end their "deep concern" about FO's being paid to stay home...right?

Carl

Originally Posted by orvil (Post 1965807)

Prior to the TA, there were some posts about RA speaking at a LCA meeting or something similar. The poster noted that he was all unglued about certain aspects of our contract that allowed pilots to sit at home and be paid. He viewed it as a management deficiency.

Fast forward to the TA, the problem has been solved from a management perspective. The fact that it abrogates the seniority of all FO's is a minor detail in management's view.

What we had with the TA was an attempt to solve the Company's perceived problem. We, meaning the MEC, bent over backwards to be "fair" with the Company. Because that's what they do in the era of Constructive Appeasement. Everyone involved, except the rank and file, were patting themselves on the back. They also failed to apply institutional memory to the issue. Well, the membership disagreed and applied the standard of fairness.

This issue will return. It's a priority for the Company and personal stick in the eye of management. Therefore, we need to fashion a solution that will address the needs of both sides. In my view, seniority is sacrosanct. It's a non-negotiable item. We have already paid a price to eliminate the onerous recovery obligation. The answer is somewhere in the middle. There is an answer, we just didn't find it in the TA.

The Company has a self-induced manning problem. It's all about productivity. As long as you remember this point, you will understand your adversary.

I'm a captain and it will never have to deal with this issue. But, I do believe in fairness. I will continue to apply that standard to this issue.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1965589)

Ok, so lets go back to the "old days."

Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:

A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.

And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.


Scoop

Originally Posted by RockyMtMadDog (Post 1966206)

And back then, the company could ask for verification and a medical release at any time. In for a penny . . .

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1966254)

Enjoy your last few days on FPL lowering expectations and carrying the company's water.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1965589)

Ok, so lets go back to the "old days."

Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:

A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.

And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.


Scoop