We have to be better than the mgmt sorts who would gladly take everything that they could. That is my entire point.

This kind of thinking is exactly why management thought they could low ball us while paying off themselves and stockholders. YGBSM.

Nope. I refuse to consider mgmts "low ball" offers. I have no rose colored glasses.

But if you think I am going to high - five or "boo yah!" dudes who say "I was furloughed so now I call in sick one a quarter whether I need to or not" or "I screwed up my vacation bids so I'll just call in sick instead" or "I got that captains eye disease last week: I just couldn't see coming to work" (these are real conversations from real pilots) then think again.

Then these same dudes will rant about how much more they deserve to be paid. Apparently that doesn't bother you as much as it does me.

That's why we get crushed.
Your statement is the equivalent of brining a game of monopoly to a gun fight and expecting to win.

That mindset is what management manipulates.

No, your "I hate everything and everybody, and not only always vote no but even find it fun and DON'T WANT a TA worth voting for" mentality that gets us nowhere. Believe it or not at some point, sometime somewhere we will reach a decent TA. NA 15 wasn't it and we were right to reject it. But I haven't seen or heard anything from you suggesting you have a clue as to how to get from here to there...if you even want to.

Your philosophical "high road" keeps getting us cost of living adjustments paid for with ps reductions. TA12 was cost neutral and TA15 was probably going to end up cost neutral as well. I'm hardly keeping up with inflation but the execs are enriching several generations of their own. They value themselves and their families future. Sorry pal, but integrity doesn't pay bills. And the furloughed guy you speak of....he already knows how " valued" he is to management.

Your "pretty please" technique won't cut it.

And it's true. I'll vote "no" for any QOL concession.

Having integrity and saying pretty please ain't the same.

Feel free to vote no indefinitely if any TA lacks merit. I would expect nothing less. Just have an idea of what you might vote for.

Mission oriented boy scout becomes airline pilot. MBA's eat you guys for breakfast while you're willing to give away the store to help fix his "problems". An industrial labor relations specialist wildest dream!

There was an expectation that our decade of sacrifice would be rewarded when our herculean efforts helped turn the company around. They have made it crystal clear that efforts of everyone EXCEPT the pilot group will be rewarded.

I don't think there is any sacrifice to integrity to work within the guidelines of the contract. The company has been very clear in that regard. Management is performing their fiduciary duty to shareholders by extracting every penny of value they can within the contract. As providers for our families or just for ourselves and multiple ex-wives, we have a similar fiduciary duty. Every pilot should extract every penny of value out of our negotiated contract.