I would vote yes for our above counter-proposal, but nothing less.

Dec 31 is Backpack Liberation Day.

They all disappeared.

I agree, this is something I could vote for. The final product will need to be somewhat close.

There are already folks spewing hate about this reengagement here, on FB and on Chit Chat. I like how the NC is using some of RA's words against him and reminding him that our customers pay a premium to fly on a safe, on-time airplane flown by professional pilots.

The final deal will be different, but I like what I see so far,

The opener is nice, but this is a negotiation not an ultimatum (of course we are free to vote no for anything less). I'm hopeful for the best but I'd be amazed if we get a chance to vote on something that looks even vaguely familiar to the opener. I wouldn't be surprised if this dragged for quite some time. Until it hurts for the company, why should they budge? And if it already hurts, this opener doesn't do anything to ease those hurts, why would they agree? I hope I'm wrong.

I am glad ALPA showed the opener, it seemed stupid that ALPA and the company knew the last one but the pilots were left in the dark. This transparency is a step in the right direction.

EDIT:

Just saw this in the UAL contract extension, I really liked it. Perhaps if there is some give and take, this would be a great one to take, I hate the extension BS game. If I don't extend I don't extend, get over it. I don't want to file paperwork and I don't want to talk to the chief pilot. If I do extend, then pay up.

5. MOU 22 replacement: Pay protection and extension Add Pay improvements
a. Eliminates requirement to file fatigue FSAP report if electing not to extend
b. Automatic Look Back Add Pay (5-F-1-h and LOA 30) improves Add Pay
1. 2.5 hours Add Pay for 1-30 min extensions
2. 5 hours Add Pay for 31-120 min extensions

I'm guessing that Punctuality thingy might become a problem if RA drags his feet on this TA.

We have LOTS of leverage right now guys, don't pizz it away.

Oh, and I am underwhelmed at this counter proposal because it didn't address restoring our pensions, or increasing our vacation pay and training pay to at least match our flying day; 5:15. Seems this new MEC cannot say Restoration either. W. T. F?

Looks to me like Focus Plus = Restoration Minus.

All the talk about restoring retirement to 60% FAE, the PBGC would consider that a "follow-on plan" which it considers "abusive" to the insurance program. Result, the PBGC will undo the original pension termination and the company would be liable for all the original underfunding. What do you think the chances are that Delta would agree to any of that in a new contract? http://www.pbgc.gov/documents/lfad/ltv-restoration.pdf

I would say that if the PBGC tells them they HAVE TO take the pensions back, Delta doesn't have a choice, right?

There should be a law to prohibit buying back stock with underfunded pensions, where are our PAC dollars going on this?:rolleyes:

Cynicism is strong here... anybody remember back in '96 or '97 when that small, but vocal, group of pilots suggested via union meeting proposal that the (North) pilot's defined benefit pension fund be converted to a defined contribution? And they were practically laughed off the property? Six or eight years later, that's exactly what happened, and we were raked over the coals for the delay that it cost the pilot group. Probably cost the most senior guys, well, who knows what. Maybe if there'd been more folks like BobZ around back then. Just sayin'...

On another note, Kuddos to the N/C and our Association's leadership for this opener. And I agree with one of the posters above, not a lot of room to negotiate downward, but plenty reasonable for the arbitration board to see things our way.

But if Delta has a choice to sign a contract that they know will result in the PBGC making them take the pension back, or NOT agree to a contract with that in it that will keep the PBGC as it is, which one do you think they will go for?
I'll bet that would be a huge no-go item for the company

Circa 92, after PanAm airman brought over B funds, that thought was alive at D South. The Ponzi scheme in place would be too difficult to change, so some thought.