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-   -   New Contract Opener 22 Dec 15 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/92342-new-contract-opener-22-dec-15-a.html)

Schwanker 12-22-2015 01:39 PM

New Contract Opener 22 Dec 15
 
Today, your Negotiating Committee presented the Company with our proposal for re-engaging in Section 6 negotiations. Under the Railway Labor Act, following rejection of the prior TA by the Delta pilots, the Section 6 process continues. Until now, the terms of the rejected TA were the parties’ last table positions, and it was up to us to propose changes to our position. Today’s proposal does just that.

As you know, the MEC directed that we re-engage the Company with a “Focused Plus” strategy, “focused” on resolving the primary objections of the pilot group to the prior TA (such as overall compensation), “plus” introducing important additional proposals not included in the TA. This strategy is based on the following pillars:

Compensation/Value
Scope
Sick Leave
Productivity/Work Rules

It is important to understand that “Focused Plus” is not intended simply to make minor changes to the rejected TA. Through polling and the web survey, you have made it clear that you expect significant improvements in a number of key areas. “Focused Plus” allows us to maximize overall improvements while serving to increase the opportunity of reaching a suitable TA within your anticipated timeframe.

On the following pages is the proposal that we presented to the Company today. The black italicized verbiage in brackets is explanatory for your benefit. The final two pages of this communique contain the major items we intend to retain from the prior TA.


In all, your Negotiating Committee believes that this proposal sets the stage for a negotiating process that will result in a superior agreement for the Delta pilots. Thank you again for continuing to remain engaged in the process.


Framework for Re-Engagement – “Focused Plus”

Delta pilots work every day to differentiate Delta from its competitors, not only through our focus on safety but also by providing world-class customer service. Customers pay a revenue premium to fly Delta, and the number one reason they will do this is because of the leadership of its pilots. Richard Anderson said it best – “There is no stronger symbol of the Delta brand than a Delta pilot in uniform.”

The rejected TA – the first one ever at Delta Air Lines – reflected the true sentiments of the Delta pilots. Since that rejection, we have conducted extensive polling and outreach to gather input from our pilots, with a record number participating. We asked why the TA was rejected and what would be needed to achieve an acceptable agreement. Our proposal today reflects the pilots’ objectives in this negotiation.

The Delta pilots feel that, while much work was accomplished in the prior negotiation in identifying issues important to the parties, changes to certain provisions in the TA will be necessary for us to move forward toward a new agreement. In particular, compensation and the overall value of the prior TA were insufficient, and certain solutions to some of the Company’s stated issues were unacceptable.

Accordingly, the Delta pilots propose to retain the changes to the PWA that were reflected in the prior TA, except as indicated in this proposal. We further propose to focus on improving key areas from the TA – “pillars” – and to add certain “plus” items not included in the TA.

Compensation/Value

We applaud the fact that Delta Air Lines is a clear leader in our industry, in terms of revenue, marketing, and profitability. However, Delta did not rise from the ashes of bankruptcy to post successive record-breaking years of profit without the sacrifices of its employees, especially its pilots. Delta pilot compensation must therefore reflect not only the financial concessions that were instrumental to Delta’s survival, but also the unique pilot-management relationships that have been crucial to propelling Delta beyond the industry standard in corporate performance. It must likewise reflect Delta’s current and projected levels of profitability and the recent increases in pilot compensation throughout the industry.

Today, a Delta pilot’s vacation accrual maximizes at 113.8 hours per year. Maximum vacation accrual for pilots throughout the industry ranges from 113.7 hours at American up to 216 hours at FedEx. Our vacation proposal would bring the Delta pilots to a maximum accrual of 176 hours.

Training is an important part of a Delta pilot’s professional life. A training event should not significantly erode a pilot’s earnings potential for a full month’s work.

Therefore, we propose to improve compensation levels as follows:

Increase hourly rates by:
22% effective January 1, 2016
7% effective January 1, 2017
7% effective January 1, 2018
Increase hourly rate for EMB-190/195 equal to B-717
Increase international pay to $8.00 for Captains and $6.00 for First Officers and delete Alaska/Canada carve-out
Re-establish night pay of $5.00 for flight time flown 1800-0559 pilot acclimated time
Establish pilot responsibility pay, e.g., “door pay”
Retain current book on 3 B. 4. [This “me-too” clause provides for a review and potential hourly pay increase when non-contract employees receive a pay increase]
Delete expiration date of 3 B. 5. [This “me-too” clause currently requires Delta to provide the same bonus or lump sum payment, other than profit sharing, that it grants to non-contract employees]
Retain current book on Pilot Profit Sharing Plan
Vacation
Increase max accrual to six weeks, add two days to PVAC, and adjust accrual rate as follows:


Years of Continuous Employment Completed before April 1st of Vacation Year

Earned Vacation

1-4

2 weeks + 2 days

5-10

3 weeks + 2 days

11-17

4 weeks + 2 days

18-24

5 weeks + 2 days

25 or more

6 weeks + 2 days

Increase daily vacation hours by 15 minutes per year, as follows:
3:30 effective April 1, 2016
3:45 effective April 1, 2017
4:00 effective April 1, 2018
Training pay
CQ – increase daily rate by 30 minutes per year, as follows:
4:15 effective January 1, 2016
4:45 effective January 1, 2017
5:15 effective January 1, 2018
Pay for distributed training increase to 1 for 1
SLI/LCP pay
Increase SLI pay to 5:15 per SLI duty period
Establish monthly override of $1000 for LCP and $1500 for LLCP
Increase per diem by $0.15 per year for domestic operations and $0.25 per year for international operations, as follows:
$2.35/$2.95 effective January 1, 2016
$2.50/$3.20 effective January 1, 2017
$2.65/$3.45 effective January 1, 2018
Increase Company contribution to DPSP by 1% per year, as follows:
16% effective January 1, 2016
17% effective January 1, 2017
18% effective January 1, 2018

Scope

Scope provisions provide the framework for Delta pilot careers, protecting job security and career progression. We propose to retain the TA changes to Section 1, with the following exceptions:

DCI
Retain current limit on number of 70/76-seat aircraft
Retain current book on 1 D. 4. - 6. restrictions on DCI aircraft flying [These provisions limit the distances and the amount of hub-to-hub flying DCI carriers may operate]
Remove “Chairman” from 1 E. 9. [This new provision requires Association approval of branding for international partner flying. This change would clarify that the approving authority is the MEC]
Retain current production balance in the Transatlantic Joint Venture [Air France/KLM/Alitalia]

Sick Leave

We believe that the PWA must neither incentivize a pilot to use sick leave when he is not sick nor pressure him to fly when he is sick. Accordingly, we propose the following changes to the TA:

Retain current book on verification thresholds, including voluntary verification
Retain current book on release of medical records
Accept new definition of Qualified Health Care Professional (QHCP) certificate, except:
Allow on-line provider
Clarify bona fide relationship requirement
No estimated return to work date
Accept that only QHCP certificate may serve as verification, but retain reimbursement for all required verifications
Provide that QHCP certificates will be submitted to Chief Pilot who will accept such as verification
Retain current book on calling in well
Provide that a Personal Drop Sick (PDS) request will always be awarded
Enhanced disability plan
Deposit 50% of unused sick leave hours into plan
Based on his plan balance, a disabled pilot will receive up to an additional 40 hours per month at his most recent hourly pay rate after DPMA has been exhausted [This new plan would prolong the time that a pilot’s disability benefits exceed 50% of pay]
Provide that sick leave may be used for FMLA leave

Productivity/Work Rules

The Delta pilots recognize the importance of Delta being able to take advantage of every opportunity to maximize its revenue. As a pilot group, our working relationship with Delta management has traditionally provided the Company a significant “first mover” advantage over competing airlines, facilitating major business transactions to be executed smoothly. Quality of life provisions that we have maintained because of this cooperation should not be eroded to match those at airlines having less collaborative relationships with their pilot groups.

It is important that Delta adequately staff its pilot force over the long term, such that no pilot is required to increase the amount of work he performs on a regular basis. In addition, any discussion of work rule changes must include a solution for today’s pilot fatigue issues.

We propose to retain the work rule changes in the TA, with the following exceptions:

Retain current book on FO bidding with LCP
New reserves required formula: [This formula from the TA will more accurately represent actual reserve utilization]
Provide that this will be a test
Provide that “I” may be negative [In the formula, “I” is a variable representing the difference between an historical average of open time and actual open time. Allowing the variable to be negative would provide for a reduction of reserves required whenever open time falls below the historical average]
Delete open time buffer [Providing that “I” may be negative in the formula eliminates any need for an open time buffer]
TLV/RCC & Virtual Base MOUs
Combine into single MOU [Virtual Base staffing coupled to Rotation Construction Committee’s bid package improvements]
Delete TLV increase
Simplify RCC provisions:
Allow the RCC to increase Company bid package solutions by up to 2% of credit [This will make it easier for the RCC to achieve the intended improvements by simplifying the metric to better reflect the way the RCC works]
Allow the RCC-enhanced bid package’s ALV (not the Company’s ALV) to exceed 84 if necessary to improve bid packages [This increases ability for the RCC to make bid package improvements in all bid periods]
Establish rotation guarantee for all removal from FDP for fatigue or fitness for duty
For a fatigue call within the limits of an FDP, rotation guarantee applies and the Fatigue Risk Management Team determines cause of fatigue; if within pilot control, rotation guarantee is deducted from pilot’s available sick leave credit hours
A pilot who does not concur with an FDP extension (or who concurs with the FDP extension but subsequently revokes such concurrence) will be assumed unfit for duty, and rotation guarantee will apply

Plus Items [Those items not already incorporated in the above pillars]

Establish Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Association (VEBA) for post-retirement expenses, e.g., medical expenses, life insurance, etc., as allowable by law [Similar to an HSA. Provides for pre-tax contributions. Money grows tax-free and can be withdrawn tax-free when used for qualified expenses]
Establish VEBA Board, comprised of MEC-appointed members, to oversee program and determine any annual and/or overall funding limits and investment options
Contributions
$1 per pay hour
Internal Revenue Code Section 415(c) and 401(a)(17) excesses as determined by the VEBA Board [These are amounts in excess of IRS qualified plan limits, which are currently returned to pilots as taxable income]
Company to pay administrative costs of program
Provide that the Company may not initiate the dismissal of an SLI/LCP from such position for other than just cause, with an SLI/LCP right to grieve such action
Address co-terminal transportation issues
Category freeze for entry level pilot – accept 24-month freeze, but clarify that pilot may bid to another aircraft at another base after 12 months if he is unable to be awarded his current aircraft at that base in that AE

Provisions of the Prior TA to Be Retained

Scope

Redefined “Control” in regard to affiliates
Improved fragmentation protections
Improved domestic mainline to DCI block hour ratio
Required separate corporate identities from international flying partners
Improved furlough protections by protecting all pilots at date of signing
Deleted Republic carve out

Compensation

A350 hourly pay rate equal to B744/777 pay rate

Minimum Pay and Credit Guarantees

One hour pay and credit for reserve pilot who does not fly during short call period
Two hours pay, no credit for pilot who is required to meet with Company representative on a non-fly day


Lodging and Expenses

International per diem for training outside the 48 states
Required crew meals for flights scheduled for more than five hours
Hotel upon request for recency training in base for pilot who lives at least 50 miles from Training Center
Hotel Committee coordination to adjust pick up times based on time of day and/or day of week


Vacations

Available move-ups posted in DBMS
Made vacation bank balance payout at retirement pensionable
Individual vacation days


Deadhead

Surface deadhead pay increased to $25 per hour
Eliminated loss of per diem when deviating from scheduled deadhead
Required automation of block times for deadheading on non-Delta aircraft


Training

Codified Automated Run Time testing
Increased line guarantee to ALV for pilot who fails to complete training
Increased notice required from SLI and/or Company when SLI returns to line
LCP/AQFO override applied to entire duty period in which LCP/AQFO duties are performed
Improved sick leave pay for SLIs
Established pay guarantee for SLI duty periods in excess of 17 that are scheduled and subsequently removed
Established “warm up” module if break in training is greater than 6 days
Restricted MV/LOE re-check days from counting as extra curriculum day
Established language related to Ab Initio training
Increased ALPA involvement in training matters


Hours of Service

Allowed as few as ten hours’ break in duty prior to FRMS duty period after delayed or cancelled FRMS duty period
Improve duty period credit for flying after 2200 (pilot base time)


Leaves of Absence

Established FAA leave for pilot who is no longer sick while awaiting his medical certificate


System Board of Adjustment

Specific timeline for grievance hearings


Filling of Vacancies

Limited 365-day conversion window to bids that contain displacements
Reduced category freeze for pilot who requires fewer than 12 curriculum days to 12 months
Increase entry level pilot category freeze to 24 months, but provided exception for pilot who can only change bases by training on different aircraft


Scheduling

Premium pay for extension of asterisk trip
Premium pay for reserve pilot who is assigned to fly into certain regular line days off
Improved trigger for reroute pay
Provided reroute pay if rerouted beyond trigger due to mechanical on pilot’s assigned aircraft
Earlier trip coverage for MAC rotations and rotations with an early report
Denied WS/GS for trip that would conflict with a trip for which the pilot had called in sick, unless no other pilot available for such WS/GS
Provided that a reserve pilot may be unavailable for contact during first two hours of any short call period
Established FRMS short calls


General

Required email notification to pilot if flight times are changed by Company


Medical, Dental, Life Insurance, and Other Benefits

Provided that up to $500 of pilot’s unused FSA funds roll over to the subsequent year
Provided that medical and dental benefits under the DPMP could be elected separately


Retirement and Disability Benefits

Eliminated earnings offsets to disability benefits after 36 months of disability
Eliminated limits on disability benefits for psychiatric conditions


Duration

3-year contract, amendable December 31, 2018

Klondike Bear 12-22-2015 01:50 PM

They forgot the part about it being retro back to July, 1st.

Doug Masters 12-22-2015 01:54 PM

This should have been the TA1 opener.

Flamer 12-22-2015 01:54 PM

Very happy the opener was released and much more specific. Haven't digested all of it yet.

notEnuf 12-22-2015 01:58 PM

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/restoration

Hank Kingsley 12-22-2015 02:00 PM

Sometimes you shoot for the moon, hoping you get a fraction of what you asked for. This isn't the case with our opener. It's reasonable.

SawF16 12-22-2015 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by Klondike Bear (Post 2032710)
They forgot the part about it being retro back to July, 1st.

I like what you are thinking, and I definitely like the direction and level of detail from the negotiators, but absolute best case you will see WRT retro is 1 Jan 2016. Why would the co pay retro to an arbitrary date previous to our amendable date? If they would, why not choose Jul 2010?

Klondike Bear 12-22-2015 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by SawF16 (Post 2032721)
I like what you are thinking, and I definitely like the direction and level of detail from the negotiators, but absolute best case you will see WRT retro is 1 Jan 2016. Why would the co pay retro to an arbitrary date previous to our amendable date? If they would, why not choose Jul 2010?

I agree it was joking a little bit. Can't hurt to ask though and Jul 2010 sounds great!

Overall I am somewhat pleased with the opener. It is very resonable.

Flamer 12-22-2015 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2032715)
Sometimes you shoot for the moon, hoping you get a fraction of what you asked for. This isn't the case with our opener. It's reasonable.

I think they may have went reasonable on purpose? Easy case for the NMB?

ghilis101 12-22-2015 02:18 PM

I would vote yes. I wish they had offered 5:15 training and vacation pay to start, and an extra week of vacation though. The question is how bad will the company counter offer be?

BobZ 12-22-2015 02:18 PM

WTH?

NO DONUTS ON FRIDAYS?

need to add delta backstopping the pbgc benefit.

Turbo1 12-22-2015 03:20 PM

Also forgot about pension re-establishment.......medical and dental benefits across the board are still weak. I will have more when I have time to study this.

GogglesPisano 12-22-2015 03:33 PM

Not sure about the point of adding 2 days of vacation without an appreciable increase in vaca day pay.

Training, vaca ... it should all be 5:15.

Otherwise pleasantly surprised.

But what about ... "This is the best we're going to get," and "PBEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!":D

JungleBus 12-22-2015 04:01 PM

This one is aggressive but still within the realm of reasonableness. In a true opener, reasonableness might not be your goal because you expect to negotiate down from there and meet somewhere in the middle. Coming on the heels of an overwhelming TA rejection and union upheaval, though, maybe you try to get management to bite on your opener before going down a longer & more difficult road (i.e. unleashing the dogs). This opener is something that, under certain circumstances, RA could defend to the shareholders. One of those circumstances might be a United snap-up. Well, guess what their new TA includes? Think their NC was talking to our NC?

notEnuf 12-22-2015 04:07 PM

No reporting on Deltanet about the re-engagement with the pilots union yet. I can't wait to see the characterization of the opener or expectations for the pace of negotiations.

Carl Spackler 12-22-2015 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 2032803)
This one is aggressive but still within the realm of reasonableness. In a true opener, reasonableness might not be your goal because you expect to negotiate down from there and meet somewhere in the middle. Coming on the heels of an overwhelming TA rejection and union upheaval, though, maybe you try to get management to bite on your opener before going down a longer & more difficult road (i.e. unleashing the dogs). This opener is something that, under certain circumstances, RA could defend to the shareholders. One of those circumstances might be a United snap-up. Well, guess what their new TA includes? Think their NC was talking to our NC?

I think you're spot on here.

Carl

forgot to bid 12-22-2015 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by ghilis101 (Post 2032737)
I would vote yes. I wish they had offered 5:15 training and vacation pay to start, and an extra week of vacation though. The question is how bad will the company counter offer be?

I like this. Twice I've had recurrent and vacation in the same month. Don't love it.

Turbo1 12-22-2015 05:57 PM

I see this as the bare minimum with absolutely no room to "negotiate down." Let's not get too excited about this. There are still some gaping inadequacies.

zippinbye 12-22-2015 06:16 PM

The void in mentioning health care is surprising. My seat-o-pants meter pegged it as a hot button issue with a lot of us. Delta lags many in the industry in both quality and cost. And the best plans we have are offered at will of the company, not through our PWA. Gains in pay could be significantly eroded, either incrementally or suddenly, if health care is not contained.

I was also looking for something innovative in retirement benefits. Like the annuity concept that was tossed around a bit. Stepping from 15% to 18% in the DPSP is really just a 3% pay raise for everyone that hits 415C maximums (which will be all captains, WB copilots and many high achievers in the domestic right seat if they make maximum personal contributions). Not saying another 3% wage increase is bad, it's just not a retirement solution.

Like others have said, this proposal would fly if stamped as-is tomorrow. But there's not much room for compromise. All said, it's very refreshing compared to what was put forth in June.

newKnow 12-22-2015 07:00 PM

So, they are proposing:

- 22%/7%/& 7%
- For all of the draconian (and embarrassing) sick leave language from TA 1 to be removed.
- LCA/FO flying to remain what it is now.
- More vacation.
- No change in the profit sharing formula.
- and many other "pluses"

AND they are publicizing the openers?

Mr. New Chairman and New Negotiating Committee -- Nice job. :D

(I apologize for doubting your survey.)



I think Sailing and all the other naysayers, so far, have been proven wrong. :)

forgot to bid 12-22-2015 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 2032903)
So, they are proposing:

- 22%/7%/& 7%
- For all of the draconian (and embarrassing) sick leave language from TA 1 to be removed.
- LCA/FO flying to remain what it is now.
- More vacation.
- No change in the profit sharing formula.
- and many other "pluses"

AND they are publicizing the openers?

Mr. New Chairman and New Negotiating Committee -- Nice job. :D

(I apologize for doubting your survey.)



I think Sailing and all the other naysayers, so far, have been proven wrong. :)

I wonder if the people who designed the survey aren't in the drivers seat? Idk.

Cubdrick 12-22-2015 07:17 PM

Speaking of Sailing, did he got lost in the Triangle on his last voyage? Sort of quiet lately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JungleBus 12-22-2015 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by Cubdrick (Post 2032915)
Speaking of Sailing, did he got lost in the Triangle on his last voyage? Sort of quiet lately.

Drinking Painkillers at the Soggy Dollar, last we heard of him I think. Maybe he never came back. Lucky! :D

newKnow 12-22-2015 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2032909)
I wonder if the people who designed the survey aren't in the drivers seat? Idk.

Good point. I wonder when that survey was designed and by who? ;)

notEnuf 12-22-2015 08:33 PM

Delta Bets On Its Punctuality. Will it Work? (DAL) (DAL)

I think management needs our cooperation. The new marketing campaign relies on our operational performance.

MtEverest 12-22-2015 09:11 PM

Huge tactical error opening so close to what most pilots will consider their contract floor. 60% FAE should have been included along with min day. If we go down even 1% from our opening position, I'm a no.

Again, you don't anchor your negotiating position so close to your bottom line. If the company pushes for any of the bogus nonsense they proposed in TA1 the operation will degrade in every category and DPA will get a shot at TA3.

If scope isn't air tight and management keeps buying/sending flying to alter ego flying operations, the congressional writing campaign from Delta pilots needs to begin to keep US pilot jobs in the US. It's complete hypocrisy to be writing letters to save jobs while management siphons those jobs to other carriers. Just because management decides which other than Delta pilots to use does not make it right to outsource in such a way.

If management drags their feet or insults the Delta pilots in their "counter" it will be time to take the gloves off and get very public about every little and big thing that is wrong with them vs us from compensation (stealing our pensions while handsomely rewarding themselves) to anti american tax policy, etc

Sputnik 12-22-2015 11:35 PM

Sorry, what's "FAE?" Seen it mentioned a couple times.

gzsg 12-23-2015 01:28 AM


Originally Posted by Sputnik (Post 2033015)
Sorry, what's "FAE?" Seen it mentioned a couple times.

Final Average Earnings FAE

I.e. Best 36 months of earnings in you last 60 months of work before retiring.

Average $20,000/month get 60% for the rest of your life in retirement. $12,000/month.

nohat 12-23-2015 03:47 AM


Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 2032903)
So, they are proposing:

- 22%/7%/& 7%
- For all of the draconian (and embarrassing) sick leave language from TA 1 to be removed.
- LCA/FO flying to remain what it is now.
- More vacation.
- No change in the profit sharing formula.
- and many other "pluses"

AND they are publicizing the openers?

Mr. New Chairman and New Negotiating Committee -- Nice job. :D

(I apologize for doubting your survey.)



I think Sailing and all the other naysayers, so far, have been proven wrong. :)

If this opener was the final contract I would agree nice job, but the job has just started. What areas are going to be negotiated and how much are they willing to give away? I feel the opener was what we want and to get what we want you have to ask for more. just my two cents in a time when RA sounded like they are going to play hard ball, but who knows the 190s still showed up without a TA!

BobZ 12-23-2015 03:54 AM

FAE? Stands for.....Fools Actually Expect.....

Purple Drank 12-23-2015 04:21 AM

I would vote yes for our above counter-proposal, but nothing less.

Dec 31 is Backpack Liberation Day.

forgot to bid 12-23-2015 04:31 AM


Originally Posted by Cubdrick (Post 2032915)
Speaking of Sailing, did he got lost in the Triangle on his last voyage? Sort of quiet lately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They all disappeared.

dragon 12-23-2015 04:44 AM


Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 2032903)
So, they are proposing:

- 22%/7%/& 7%
- For all of the draconian (and embarrassing) sick leave language from TA 1 to be removed.
- LCA/FO flying to remain what it is now.
- More vacation.
- No change in the profit sharing formula.
- and many other "pluses"

AND they are publicizing the openers?

Mr. New Chairman and New Negotiating Committee -- Nice job. :D

(I apologize for doubting your survey.)



I think Sailing and all the other naysayers, so far, have been proven wrong. :)

I agree, this is something I could vote for. The final product will need to be somewhat close.

There are already folks spewing hate about this reengagement here, on FB and on Chit Chat. I like how the NC is using some of RA's words against him and reminding him that our customers pay a premium to fly on a safe, on-time airplane flown by professional pilots.

The final deal will be different, but I like what I see so far,

MikeF16 12-23-2015 04:52 AM

The opener is nice, but this is a negotiation not an ultimatum (of course we are free to vote no for anything less). I'm hopeful for the best but I'd be amazed if we get a chance to vote on something that looks even vaguely familiar to the opener. I wouldn't be surprised if this dragged for quite some time. Until it hurts for the company, why should they budge? And if it already hurts, this opener doesn't do anything to ease those hurts, why would they agree? I hope I'm wrong.

I am glad ALPA showed the opener, it seemed stupid that ALPA and the company knew the last one but the pilots were left in the dark. This transparency is a step in the right direction.

EDIT:

Just saw this in the UAL contract extension, I really liked it. Perhaps if there is some give and take, this would be a great one to take, I hate the extension BS game. If I don't extend I don't extend, get over it. I don't want to file paperwork and I don't want to talk to the chief pilot. If I do extend, then pay up.

5. MOU 22 replacement: Pay protection and extension Add Pay improvements
a. Eliminates requirement to file fatigue FSAP report if electing not to extend
b. Automatic Look Back Add Pay (5-F-1-h and LOA 30) improves Add Pay
1. 2.5 hours Add Pay for 1-30 min extensions
2. 5 hours Add Pay for 31-120 min extensions

Timbo 12-23-2015 05:19 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2032971)
Delta Bets On Its Punctuality. Will it Work? (DAL) (DAL)

I think management needs our cooperation. The new marketing campaign relies on our operational performance.

I'm guessing that Punctuality thingy might become a problem if RA drags his feet on this TA.

We have LOTS of leverage right now guys, don't pizz it away.

Oh, and I am underwhelmed at this counter proposal because it didn't address restoring our pensions, or increasing our vacation pay and training pay to at least match our flying day; 5:15. Seems this new MEC cannot say Restoration either. W. T. F?

Looks to me like Focus Plus = Restoration Minus.

MDPilot 12-23-2015 05:44 AM

All the talk about restoring retirement to 60% FAE, the PBGC would consider that a "follow-on plan" which it considers "abusive" to the insurance program. Result, the PBGC will undo the original pension termination and the company would be liable for all the original underfunding. What do you think the chances are that Delta would agree to any of that in a new contract? http://www.pbgc.gov/documents/lfad/ltv-restoration.pdf

Timbo 12-23-2015 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by MDPilot (Post 2033092)
All the talk about restoring retirement to 60% FAE, the PBGC would consider that a "follow-on plan" which it considers "abusive" to the insurance program. Result, the PBGC will undo the original pension termination and the company would be liable for all the original underfunding. What do you think the chances are that Delta would agree to any of that in a new contract? http://www.pbgc.gov/documents/lfad/ltv-restoration.pdf

I would say that if the PBGC tells them they HAVE TO take the pensions back, Delta doesn't have a choice, right?

There should be a law to prohibit buying back stock with underfunded pensions, where are our PAC dollars going on this?:rolleyes:

chuck416 12-23-2015 05:59 AM


Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2033045)
FAE? Stands for.....Fools Actually Expect.....

Cynicism is strong here... anybody remember back in '96 or '97 when that small, but vocal, group of pilots suggested via union meeting proposal that the (North) pilot's defined benefit pension fund be converted to a defined contribution? And they were practically laughed off the property? Six or eight years later, that's exactly what happened, and we were raked over the coals for the delay that it cost the pilot group. Probably cost the most senior guys, well, who knows what. Maybe if there'd been more folks like BobZ around back then. Just sayin'...

On another note, Kuddos to the N/C and our Association's leadership for this opener. And I agree with one of the posters above, not a lot of room to negotiate downward, but plenty reasonable for the arbitration board to see things our way.

MDPilot 12-23-2015 06:21 AM


Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2033099)
I would say that if the PBGC tells them they HAVE TO take the pensions back, Delta doesn't have a choice, right?

There should be a law to prohibit buying back stock with underfunded pensions, where are our PAC dollars going on this?:rolleyes:

But if Delta has a choice to sign a contract that they know will result in the PBGC making them take the pension back, or NOT agree to a contract with that in it that will keep the PBGC as it is, which one do you think they will go for?
I'll bet that would be a huge no-go item for the company

Hank Kingsley 12-23-2015 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by chuck416 (Post 2033102)
Cynicism is strong here... anybody remember back in '96 or '97 when that small, but vocal, group of pilots suggested via union meeting proposal that the (North) pilot's defined benefit pension fund be converted to a defined contribution? And they were practically laughed off the property? Six or eight years later, that's exactly what happened, and we were raked over the coals for the delay that it cost the pilot group. Probably cost the most senior guys, well, who knows what. Maybe if there'd been more folks like BobZ around back then. Just sayin'...

On another note, Kuddos to the N/C and our Association's leadership for this opener. And I agree with one of the posters above, not a lot of room to negotiate downward, but plenty reasonable for the arbitration board to see things our way.

Circa 92, after PanAm airman brought over B funds, that thought was alive at D South. The Ponzi scheme in place would be too difficult to change, so some thought.


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