It depends on how you define full retro. We got a small raise at the amendable date for contract 2000. Something like 3 or 4 percent. The big raise we only got two months retro pay on. If this drags out 3 years and they agree to 3% on 1 JAN 16 to the date of signing and then 22% at signing that's full retro on paper. The reality is its not even close.

 

Exactly correct. The longer you go past your amendable date, the less your chances of getting full retro. The last time my company went past our amendable date they would have had to cut me a check of close to $75K. As I recall we got a $15K "signing bonus."

 

I'm glad someone else remembered it this way. The subject came up a few months back and I brought this delayed large raise/small raise at amendable date (with retro) thing up and was attacked. Wanted proof, like I keep all the records! So technically we got 100% retro, but it's not what we thought it would be.

 

The other big issue is taxes. A big retro check is going to throw you into a higher bracket and probably trigger the AMT. AMT can be a really big hit.

 

The DAL pilots, with a few exceptions got 3.8% retro. Is that full retro? Well I guess that depends on how you define full retro.

It's all part of the negotiating process. But generally speaking, the longer it takes, the less the % you get in retro. I guess that's what Malone means when he says that there is a time value of money and a time value of delay.

 

Concessions are old news. Move on.

 

So do you realistically believe that there will not be one single solitary concession? Is that achievable?

 

I believe if pilots want it - it is achievable. Simply because if pilots disengage it will cost the company more. Pilots just need to want it.
If pilots don't want it or aren't united - we will hear the old, endless game of "we need to give them something and they will give us that.."

BTW if pay raise is less than previous pay cut (concession) it is not really a pay raise, is it?

I really hope I did not miss your point..

 

This is exactly why Family Awareness meetings need to start happening (and there is one scheduled in ATL later this month, check your email inbox). We need to remind everyone how much we ALREADY GAVE UP! We are still living with the concessions gave to save Delta 10 years ago! If you weren't here for that, you really need to get to a family awareness meeting and the MEC really needs to add it all up, all the concessions since LOA46, to show exactly what we have already PAID for when it comes to any increases we want now.

We 'Paid it Forward' 10 years ago! We don't need to trade any more concessions now that Delta is making historic profits and still paying us 18% BELOW 2004 rates, with no DB plan!

 

No you didn't miss it at all. I just don't believe that it is. Here's why. There are several different demographics here that have differing wants/needs, and the perception of those needs determines whether or not something is a concession. For example, I maintain that every day that goes by without an agreement and a pay increase (I agree with you on that one) is a defacto concession because I have none of that money to invest. Some people advocate a return to a cap. To some that would be concessionary because they have their hours cut. There are a ton of examples. At some point in time, you have to make a deal, or you continue to get farther behind. Not saying it has to be a bad deal, but our earnings are currently stagnant and are being eaten by inflation (thank goodness it is low). Look no further than 88drivers' posts on the effects of inflation on C2K. Because we are now in negotiations does not mean that that erosion has stopped. I will say it again for the reading comprehension challenged however - We do not have to accept a bad deal.