I saw the this after I posted. Great (or perverted) minds think alike, I suppose.

Well to some extent, Hawaiian Airlines may be somewhat of an indicator how the NMB process is going to work. I personally think this will resolve itself. If Hawaiian is released to self help, it could send shockwaves through the industry. For you more seasoned APC guys, thoughts on this logic?

A few months before a Presidential election? I can see either the NMB saying there's no impasse or a PEB jumping in and not allowing it to happen. For some reason everyone and their mother can strike...except airline employees. Management has the upper hand...and will continue having the upper hand until something major changes.

ALPA does not negotiate for you or your group. Management may like you (and us) to think so, because it drastically lowers expectations and pops a mental drag chute on the backs of any pilot negotiator who falls for it, as well as enlists at least some in the FA ranks to help management with their Bolshevik (and ironically anti labor) heavy lifting. But too bad.

We are different labor groups, with vastly different needs and barriers/costs to entry. Pilots getting an XX% raise has no bearing whatsoever on FA's getting a raise or not or how much it is. Pilots have significantly different medical concerns and therefore should get significantly different (at least for some things) medical and especially disability, and on and on for all the other things in our (not your) contract. We negotiate against our peers which are other pilots, and you negotiate (directly or indirectly) with the union and non union flight attendants in the industry.

I personally hope you can raise your pay and working conditions because I think it helps with recruiting, retention, morale and at the end of the day the product and experience itself. But I will not tolerate any nonsense along the lines that we can't get XYZ (especially if other large pilot groups already have it) because we would have to give it to the FA's too. DL lagged the industry with the jumpseat for years in large part due to management trying to pit FA's against us. Objection: irrelevant, motion to dismiss.

Again, I believe you when you say you want us to get a good CBA, and unlike some I welcome your opinions on this board, in crew vans or wherever. But I wholeheartedly reject the playbook of labor busting management teams industry wide when they reflexively try to link other work groups to pilot negotiations. Pilot labor is the most expensive labor for an airline, so it behoves them to try to lower expectations and this is one of the top ways they go about it.

Not to mention "me too" rhetoric goes both ways. Which labor groups are at or above pre BK pay and which aren't?

We're not owed anything because FA's got it. We seriously lag United and are falling behind each day. Its time for a very positive contract with no concessions. Thanks for your support.

Gloopy,


Two points. We do lag UAL and their FAs are organized. DAL FAs organizing would not be bad for us.

If the company and our negotiators both feel that we are also negotiating for the FAs then we are pretty much negotiating for them.

Scoop

A release for self-help does not automatically mean strike. The union membership first has to vote to authorize a strike then union leadership needs to call for one. Self-help can include lots of other union actions (no more than x hrs of pay/credit/flying, temporary work stoppages (shut down for say 30 minutes per day), etc. lots of things that probably won't trigger a PEB.

That said, I'll believe we have a chance for release if SWA gets one. They've been without a contract for 4 years.

The company has crossed my personal threshold of demotivation. I personally feel very de-motivated to:
1) GS (unless it's GSWC)
2) Fly more than my awarded monthly hours
3) Use my outstanding leadership abilities to step out of my FOM or otherwise prescribed duties to lead this operation.
4) Use my lifetime of flying skill/knowledge to deviate from company provided plans to put an operation back on schedule.
5) Apply any discretion to when a write up should go in the book

I will certainly not take any steps to hurt the operation, I just don't feel motivated to proactively solve company problems...at least not until they value my contributions to the company success. A decent contract in the next few weeks will likely re-motivate me.

"Summer Is Here!"

The thing is, the company can also engage in "self help." No more Westins. See you at the NoTell Motel. And a thousand other things to stick a salty thumb in our eye.

With all those games in play, I don't see how it's safe to fly after being released. The strike vote will happen prior to that anyway.

Uh yeah, I know this. You missed the point. No realease is coming...at least not soon, and I'm very de-motivated right now.

[QUOTE=Purple Drank;2140259]The thing is, the company can also engage in "self help." No more Westins. See you at the NoTell Motel. And a thousand other things to stick a salty thumb in our eye.

You mean like not being able to get Econ-comfort seats for deadheads?

Me too.
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