Did you miss Timbo's post above yours?

 

Close all bases except ATL, and farm out the flying to VB on a monthly basis. That's their "need" next contract.

 

Because it's sort of like "monetizing" our PS. Hard to figure out how much of the raise is a raise, and how much is a trade. Start with the raise. Then trade and monetize on top of that.

 

Devil is in the details. VB is a big NO for me.

 

That's exactly how it will be sold, but in the long run, we all lose, as you'll be stuck in a lower paying seat, and/or flying more to make up for the lost DH credit time/jobs.

Bottom line, the company wants this, not us, what does that tell you?

Here's a quick example of what this could cost us. Take the LAX SYD trip. For years it's been flown by 777 pilots based in ATL. It begins and ends with a 5 hour DH to/from LAX. It blocks about 28 hours, pays about 38 due to the DH. Two trips = 76 hours for a line. You could stay with that or you could greenslip another one, be FAR117 legal and be paid 144 hours for flying 3 of them.

Now that they have opened the 777 base in LAX specifically to eliminate the DH on this trip, the trip is only worth 28 hours. Now you have to fly 3 of them for a 86 hour line, instead of 2 for 76 hours, plus the ability to GS another one. You are now working 4 more days for 10 hours. Oh, and guess what else? They don't need as many 777 pilots now. So no 777 upgrade for you!

OK, now extend that concept to all 3 of the 777 trips out of LAX. SYD, PVG, NRT. Now add JFK 777 trips DH, and SEA, and MSP. Before they put the 777 in LAX, each of those trips had 10 hours of DH time included. That's 4 pilots each trip, X 5 hours DH, every day. Oh, plus the hotels for 12 pilots a night on each end, every day.

And the 777 is our second smallest category. Think of all the DH they could eliminate if they opened a virtual base in BOS for the 767/757, or in MCO for the 737/MD88. And what if they opened a virtual base in Narita? All of our wide bodies fly a bunch of DH in/out of NRT, and some of those DH legs are 8-14 hours long, back to the states. Eliminate all that DH pay and associated jobs, what do you think is going to happen all the way down the list?

 

No, I saw it. There are a few pilots that get to take advantage of these things as they are. Good for them. If they can be restructured and result in a better deal for everybody, I don't see the harm. It is worth exploring anyway. Once again, I guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored as to how they feel about it.

 

I just don't buy all this fear mongering about lost jobs and stagnation at this point in time. Sorry, but we are retiring 800/year growing a little and hiring out the wazoo. Stagnation is so 2000s. And again, I am not necessarily saying that I am for it but I am not against it for the reasons you espouse. Besides, I would rather be in my window seat than sitting in 46b between two Sumo wrestlers.

 

How do you know it is a no without any details? I don't understand.

 

Like him, i dont want any more camels in the tent.

 

Seems there's a lot you don't understand. Are you new here? How many contracts and different management teams have you worked under here at Delta? If you are a Newby, I apologize and I'll try to go easy and slowly for you, but if you've been here for 20+ years, there is no excuse for the stupidity of some of your questions and comments.