Originally Posted by Dat jet

I don't have a problem necessarily with Delta having JVs/codeshares because it does have its advantages, but IT DOES bother me we do it so much. While UAL and AA have three times to four times as many 777s as we do...and are taking deliveries of 777-300s right now (which we don't even have on order) and they both have 787s on property. They'll get more and more of those type of aircraft while we fly around 767-300/300ERs.....and where is the replacement for these 72 aircraft? Don't say it's the new A350/A330 NEO order...that's only 50 aircraft. Between the 767 fleet and the 747 fleet....that's 88 aircraft. 72 + 16 = 88. And don't forget we have a whopping 18 777s

If we would have given the company the widebody scope metrics they wanted, we would never even see a true 767 replacement. Don't give up scope fellas for a few extra bucks or some other nonsense. You could spend a lot of time at Delta in an A321/737-900ER/C-Series while looking UP at United and AA's 777-300s, 787s, and A350s.

Originally Posted by Dat jet

I don't have a problem necessarily with Delta having JVs/codeshares because it does have its advantages, but IT DOES bother me we do it so much. While UAL and AA have three times to four times as many 777s as we do...and are taking deliveries of 777-300s right now (which we don't even have on order) and they both have 787s on property. They'll get more and more of those type of aircraft while we fly around 767-300/300ERs.....and where is the replacement for these 72 aircraft? Don't say it's the new A350/A330 NEO order...that's only 50 aircraft. Between the 767 fleet and the 747 fleet....that's 88 aircraft. 72 + 16 = 88. And don't forget we have a whopping 18 777s

If we would have given the company the widebody scope metrics they wanted in the failed TA, we would never even see a true 767 replacement. Don't give up scope fellas for a few extra bucks or some other nonsense. You could spend a lot of time at Delta in an A321/737-900ER/C-Series while looking UP at United and AA's 777-300s, 787s, and A350s. Sure, we could get a nice pay raise, but in essence a pilot at UAL or AA on average could make more than we do even though they have overall lower pay rate just because they have so much heavy metal...and we have so little to spread around for our folks to fly.

Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy

DL is indeed expanding its wide body inventory. Just not at DL. As long as AF, KLM, Korean, China Eastern, Aero Mexico, Virgin Atlantic have 747, 380, 787.. why does DL need them? They claim they do well making smaller piecemeal orders "opportunistic" they call it. I call it kicking the capital expenditure can down the road to fund stock buybacks that weaken us financially. Crap, we have a number of leased 737-900s... those are supposed to be the backbone of our fleet forever and I can't be convinced of a reason to lease any of them. We have 76ERs that are antiques. If we don't have replacements on the order book now we may wait years. I suspect management looks at our JVs as an international scab/replacement force. I trust our management to make money and take care of whomever is left flying for Delta. I'm just not sure what or how many jobs there will be. I'm also not sure how it affects hiring. If the typical UAL, AMR person can expect to spend twice the time on a wide body as a DL person.... That is a ton of career bucks difference. Rant over. Have a great Delta day. JMO, OFG

Originally Posted by sidestep

Too bad she didn't take the job, she might be half way up the seniority list by now..

Originally Posted by Dat jet

OldFlyGuy,

That's my point....the widebodies aren't at Delta. I don't think we should buy 40 777s just to have them, but it becomes a problem when the disparity between our widebody fleet and UAL and AMR's widebody fleet continues to grow...to our disadvantage.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

Interesting point. Super premium always has to pay more though. There is no other way.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

...or the coup of getting the 777 lined up with the 747 and the 330 lined up with the 767. Whoops now we screwed ourselves going for a land grab. Management must have loved that one.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

...or the coup of getting the 777 lined up with the 747 and the 330 lined up with the 767. Whoops now we screwed ourselves going for a land grab. Management must have loved watching one side drop bigger aircraft into lower paying categories.

Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy

DL is indeed expanding its wide body inventory. Just not at DL. As long as AF, KLM, Korean, China Eastern, Aero Mexico, Virgin Atlantic have 747, 380, 787.. why does DL need them? They claim they do well making smaller piecemeal orders "opportunistic" they call it. I call it kicking the capital expenditure can down the road to fund stock buybacks that weaken us financially. Crap, we have a number of leased 737-900s... those are supposed to be the backbone of our fleet forever and I can't be convinced of a reason to lease any of them. We have 76ERs that are antiques. If we don't have replacements on the order book now we may wait years. I suspect management looks at our JVs as an international scab/replacement force. I trust our management to make money and take care of whomever is left flying for Delta. I'm just not sure what or how many jobs there will be. I'm also not sure how it affects hiring. If the typical UAL, AMR person can expect to spend twice the time on a wide body as a DL person.... That is a ton of career bucks difference. Rant over. Have a great Delta day. JMO, OFG

Originally Posted by capncrunch

...or the coup of getting the 777 lined up with the 747 and the 330 lined up with the 767. Whoops now we screwed ourselves going for a land grab. Management must have loved watching one side drop bigger aircraft into lower paying categories.

Originally Posted by TED74

Exactly what our management is hoping for...hold us back to taking a small step and prevent us from hitting the home run that is clearly deserved and achievable.