Let's save time. It's a 'good thing' to fly dal customers on non-dal aircraft. 'All scope agreements between dal and dalpa have been for the advancement of the dal pilot career'. The last JV settlement netted the dal pilots a whopping ~$30m! What's not to like here?

Since the 90's and 'the rj fleet will allow a nimble marketing' concept sales job, flying dal customers on non-dal aircraft has kept dal in business and saved the dal pilot career.

How's that. Now, about that PS trade...

edit: even more important... the other side in these agreements finds no problem in violating agreements for pennies on the dollar.

 

More hyperbole. I seriously want to see evidence of transgressions. Nobody has any. They are serious allegations that deserve hard evidence. It's just that I have a hard time getting behind internet bull****.

 

So... dal mgt/dalpa explanation of diminishing JV/RJ scope protection is internet bs?

I wouldn't say that. I'd say it just makes an argument for every party(including alpa represented connection carriers) 'except the dal line pilot and his contract with dal'.

Amazing that my representation has found so many ways to tell me that I am an abuser, and I am unproductive and thereby undeserving of protection from the increasing encroachment.

But hey, this is the representation the majority wants. Que sera

 

I don't know about any of that. What's more I really don't care (don't be offended) in the context of this thread. I am asking for empirical evidence of scope abuse. You say that there is encroachment. Prove it.

Does anybody have any? Numbers. Facts. Not hearsay.

And don't take these questions the wrong way. I appreciate the fact that you are even answering the thread. Seriously.

 

Was it a grievance award or a negotiated settlement?

 

I have no position or title in this industry that might convince you of any argument that I might make. And my intent is not hyperbole or to lie, but no offense taken. I am not posting to support the dalpa or the dpa line like most.

In the example of the latest JV settlement, my progression in the past 4-5 years would be a perfect anecdotal picture of damages incurred by the dal JV transgression. Many factors also impact seniority seat/acft progression, but the argument can be made that my 'negative progression' in the same seat for 4-5 years is a result of less organic expansion and greater reliance on JV/codeshare. Like the 2% effect argument made by dalpa last year wrt line check pulls, my negative progression should have a negative effect on progressions junior to me. The level of that effect could also be argued.

Was it worth ~$30m to the dal pilot? Dalpa says yes, and no one could argue that I have more information than dalpa to cost anything, failure to adhere to JV or AIPs, with greater accuracy.

Another aspect that must be argued, might be, will the pilot pay rates suffer with increased exposure to direct comparison to the global industry rates? Did dalpa provide that comparison to us? If it is unfavorable, our rates would suffer with the direct comparison and we would suffer lack of growth for better contract, I would concede.

If dalpa does not consider JV to be a negative to our contract and progression, they should ignore this... WHEREAS the airline pilot profession, and in particular members of ALPA, are now, have been, and will be subject to increasing threats from various international schemes intended to defeat or avoid Labor Protective Provisions, as well as the increasing reliance by the industry on JOINT VENTURE and similar agreements, and...

I would also welcome more information to make better judgements, but dalpa requires that I rely on only the information they provide(or the information I find for myself). The majority of pilots are working ever increasing hours these days, how much time are they spending educating themselves on information not specifically provided for them by dal/dalpa?

 

They have been in and out of compliance with the production balance on a month to month basis. The exact numbers are posted on the DALPA website on a quarterly basis. Last time I looked they were very slightly out of compliance. Around .5%. The continued drawdown in average fleet size by AF/KLM may put them in compliance before the measurement period is over.

 

Here's the JV Grievance, straight off the DALPA website:

15-04 June 3, 2015 Settlement of MEC Grievance 15-01 On April 1, 2015, MEC Chairman Mike Donatelli filed Grievance 15-01 (see MEC Update 15-03), asserting that the Company was out of compliance ... Member System Board of Adjustment under an expedited timeline. The Company approached ALPA after the grievance filing to discuss a mutually agreeable settlement to the grievance. These discussions have led to a settlement. Included in the settlement agreement is a payment of thirty million dollars to the Delta pilots for Delta Air Lines’ share of Bundle 1 flying being less than the minimum required
Settlement of MEC Grievance 15-01 On April 1, 2015, MEC Chairman Mike Donatelli filed Grievance 15-01 (see MEC Update 15-03), asserting that the Company was out of compliance ... Member System Board of Adjustment under an expedited timeline. The Company approached ALPA after the grievance filing to discuss a mutually agreeable settlement to the grievance. These discussions have led to a settlement. Included in the settlement agreement is a payment of thirty million dollars to the Delta pilots for Delta Air Lines’ share of Bundle 1 flying being less than the minimum required
JV Grievance Settlement
settlement.

 

From the DALPA website:

uly 27, 2015 15-07 JV Grievance Explanation As the AF/KLM/AZ grievance settlement distribution moves through Delta payroll processing, some questions have arisen over the amount of the grievance ... /KLM/AZ JV agreement. The purpose of this update is to clear up any misconceptions that may still exist. Our current PWA states: A new three-year rolling measurement period will begin April 1, 2011 ... . The steps used to calculate damages for the four years that Delta was out of compliance are: 1. Calculate the total amount of EASKs flown in the JV 2. Multiply that amount by 48.5% to determine
JV Grievance Explanation As the AF/KLM/AZ grievance settlement distribution moves through Delta payroll processing, some questions have arisen over the amount of the grievance ... /KLM/AZ JV agreement. The purpose of this update is to clear up any misconceptions that may still exist. Our current PWA states: A new three-year rolling measurement period will begin April 1, 2011 ... . The steps used to calculate damages for the four years that Delta was out of compliance are: 1. Calculate the total amount of EASKs flown in the JV 2. Multiply that amount by 48.5% to determine
settlement distribution moves through Delta payroll processing, some questions have arisen over the amount of the grievance settlement, how the Association calculated the amount of damages, and the impact on pilot staffing. Specifically, there have been differing claims as to the amount of shortfall that occurred in the AF ... measurement perio

 

doesn't matter if its .0001% or 99%....out of compliance is out of compliance