UPS new contract is going 10.75 years from old amendable date to new amendable date. And took 5.0 years to negotiate, or 4.5 years past amendable*.

Applying that to our particular situation, we get:
TA2 effective 07/01/2019
TA2 amendable 09/01/2025

If the MEC wants to take us down that road, I want a vote first.





*if my info is incorrect, let me know. I got it off APC.

 

We're not there yet, but our internal politics could certainly take us in that direction.

A great example is the time our MEC recently wasted by putting Captain Dickson on Executive Inactive status. Word is he took the decision under protest and is accepting the request rather than provoke the MEC to pi$$ away more time on the topic.

He's donating his dues reduction to the Delta Care Fund, so at least something good came out of that little gesture.

Now back to work boys, your NC and SME's are telling you a valuable deal is there if you have the discipline to do your job and work together towards it.

 

Maybe not incorrect but how about incomplete.

We are industry lagging and will be the whole period you mention. While UPS was in prolonged negotiations they were industry leading in many categories.

Is this really that hard to understand?

Not to mention another important point - UPS through a prolonged negotiation has raised the bar for all of us.

I am not saying that I don't think we should get a vote - if the TA is in the ballpark we probably should vote, but you are not coming across as neutral and open minded - if that is indeed your goal.

Scoop

 

USAir says hello.

Yes they did. To them however was it worth the wait? (rhetorical)

 

Spot on Scoop. Anyone that points out that time frame without acknowledging that they were already way out in front to begin with is selling snake oil. We, on the other hand, are in a significantly different starting position.

Sink, you're better than this.

 

That "YES" vote is just burning a hole in your pocket! huh Sink...

 

I think you can make that good point without accusing me of being misleading. I hadn't considered it.

Conversely, you have to consider the fact that the UPS deal was finally settled in a solid economic period, with low fuel costs. Combined with the factor you mention, and the tremendous savings already realized by delaying for 5 years, and it wasn't hard for UPS to make the leap. With us, on the other hand, the positive catalysts are behind us, and there is no guarantee that the economy, oil prices, event risk etc. won't play an adverse effect.

So, all I was doing was applying their timeframe to our deal. My point is that they ended up pre-funding their deal simply by virtue of the time to reach it.

Your point that we have better deals to pattern-bargain from is well-taken.

I'm not trying to come across as anything in particular. I'm the same guy I was before, during, and after P2P. I'm tired of the lack of results and infighting from this MEC. I believe that there is a serious conflict between the needs of the average pilot, and the political considerations of the 19. I think polling and surveys are being ignored. I think a small number that refuses to see the facts of our situation is having an out-sized influence on 12 reps, and I object to it. So I make no apologies about actively demanding a vote, and pointing out that the workable plan goes through effective negotiation under mediation, not strike fantasies.

 

As a mod, you should be better than this yourself.

I laid out the facts about the timeframe, and how that would extrapolate for us. Scoop is capable of making a good point, and I'm capable of acknowledging it.

 

Point taken - lets just leave it at "incomplete." Previous posts edited.

Scoop

 

Scoop covered it. At the very least, multitudes of highly important aspects other than just the time frame were left out.