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Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
(Post 2191984)
We'll have an AIP in short order is my guess. Or we won't, then it will be a couple of years. Morale will sink very low despite the hiring and new Surface tablets. Delta will become 4th or 5th airline of choice to work for. Ed will get quite a bit more wealthy and we'll be *****ing for years.
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I'm with hookshot, keep the conversation going. At least we will end up at a decision point sooner than later. Getting parked only delays reaching that inevitable point.
If the deal is that bad then it will be voted down. Why the hand wringing over the AIPs? As always I'll judge the whole TA when it comes out. Are there some things that should be cleaned up? Absolutely. Isn't that what the 12 just directed though? A bunch of AIPs is not a TA. The opportunity to fix things exists until they agree to a TA so why not keep them at the table? I'll admit that I was surprised the NMB scheduled more meetings for next week. There must have been some sign of movement from the company too for the NMB to continue to allocate resources our way. |
Originally Posted by ERflyer
(Post 2192151)
Just let them negotiate. Seems like quite a few people are afraid the company will cough up the money and we might get a deal. Now why would that be?
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 2192198)
I'm with hookshot, keep the conversation going. At least we will end up at a decision point sooner than later. Getting parked only delays reaching that inevitable point.
If the deal is that bad then it will be voted down. Why the hand wringing over the AIPs? As always I'll judge the whole TA when it comes out. Are there some things that should be cleaned up? Absolutely. Isn't that what the 12 just directed though? A bunch of AIPs is not a TA. The opportunity to fix things exists until they agree to a TA so why not keep them at the table? I'll admit that I was surprised the NMB scheduled more meetings for next week. There must have been some sign of movement from the company too for the NMB to continue to allocate resources our way. But I also wonder if the nmb just lost some leverage over labor? If I'm to believe everything I heard from the pro TA15 crowd about the nmb then I'd have to assume they see us as unreasonable and completely with the company. Now, maybe theyre losing their perceived high ground? |
Originally Posted by Tanker1497
(Post 2192051)
Fair enough. My opinion is we are already 18 percent or so below legacy pay, more than that due to fedex and ups. Even if the company took our counter proposal as is, we are barely there. AIPs only put us further behind. I believe negotiations are a good thing, the quicker we shoot down an industry lagging deal, the sooner we can come up with a proposal worthy of industry leading.
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737/A320 at UA 15 percent. Any A/C at UPS at new TA rates, compared to our 7ER is 25 percent. Not counting DC. Also not counting A plan at UPS (in addition to the 12 percent B plan). Not counting vacation, training pay, medical costs, min calendar day pay, or any of the other rigs/rules that compound the higher pay rates.
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Originally Posted by Tanker1497
(Post 2192214)
737/A320 at UA 15 percent. Any A/C at UPS at new TA rates, compared to our 7ER is 25 percent. Not counting DC. Also not counting A plan at UPS (in addition to the 12 percent B plan). Not counting vacation, training pay, medical costs, min calendar day pay, or any of the other rigs/rules that compound the higher pay rates.
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Originally Posted by ERflyer
(Post 2192151)
Just let them negotiate. Seems like quite a few people are afraid the company will cough up the money and we might get a deal. Now why would that be?
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2192212)
Can you post some numbers other then the 330/767-400 to back up that 18% number? Do you count total DC money in that 18%? What is the weighted average we are behind UAL and AMR?
Do you really think DC should be counted? If so how do we add in the retirement at UPS/FDX/AMR etc? Scoop |
Guess I'll just vote YES to offset tinker1794!
(Maybe he should go work for UPS!) Why not just wait and see what happens? |
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