More disingenuous sarcasm. Stipulating that the 2015TA was a colossal failure, it's really ballsy to mock those who voted it down. Again, if we believed our reps, followed the recommendations of the leadership in place at the time, and their supporters who blindly sold it, we would be the joke of the industry today.
Those who said we should take the deal, that the next one would be worse, were as wrong as can be. Empirically.
Thank God we voted it down.
Admit it. They got it wrong, and we're all better off for saying so.

You are correct about the TA, wrong about who I'm "mocking". I'm just saying Gerry could try that instead of "baby needs a new pair of shoes."

I said it at the time, and I'm still saying now, that I respect the vote, and I'm glad it was so decisive. I was a reluctant but unrepentant yes on that TA, because I took RA at his word that a follow-on deal would be worse. We knew the company was overreaching, but not whether they would acknowledge it. We know they're willing to do more.

I also voted for it because I didn't trust the noreps to execute on a better deal. I will be very happy to be proven wrong. I mean that sincerely. Their success is my success, and your success.

I agree. And just for clarity, you've already been proven wrong with the company's last offer.

I tried to cash in the offer, but my bank doesn't accept "offer" yet.:)

You will likely be right, assuming we're not hopelessly stupid, but right now TA2 is just a concept to argue over.

Nope. Let's be accurate. The threat from DALPA was that the companies' next offer would be worse. It wasn't. It was better. They were wrong. No matter what the future holds, they got that wrong.
It's not "likely". It's fact.

You are correct. I was addressing a point you weren't making.

The point you're making, I acknowledged: we know they're willing to do more.

We have also seen that with SWA.

you took management at their 'word'? and voted out of fear.

how long have you been in this industry? and what historical record would lead you to conclude it prudent to place any faith in managements 'word'?

hell.....they had just been found deliberately violating our pwa......something that has been a habit over the last 30 years. 'words' to management....are just that. words.

vocal inflections imparted to the expelled gasses of human respiration.

I was referring to the airline making record profits, quarter after quarter. The sense of urgency to get a deal 6 months early led to foolish things, like using PS to fund pay raises, among other toxic concessions (JM's word). The timing was great to get a great deal. The deal wasn't great, and our MEC wouldn't even vote it up...

Maybe, at some point, DALPA/ALPA will fire Cohen, Weiss and Simon and hire attorneys who can actually draft contract language that defines and implements remedies for company breaches. We merely seem to react if/when the company doesn't abide by the PWA.

Take the JV breach for example. We have language in the PWA which establishes JV limits. Great. But a well-drafted contract also has provisions for the remedy if that provision is to be breached. Look at your mortgage sometime. There are a whole bunch of clauses that tell you what you can and can't do and......a whole bunch more that tell you what is going to happen if you fail to do that what you were supposed to do or did something you weren't.

I realize this will make our PWA even longer (and many don't read what we already have) but the purpose of a contract is to define what each party's obligations are under the agreement and what each party's remedies are if the other side should breach. We do a marginally adequate job on the first part...but we have done a lousy job on the second part.