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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:00 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I'd rather get a TA that is easily passable rather than just something to vote on. Anyone can shove a half-arsed product out there and tell you it's the best you're going to get...

I can write in light colors, too!!
I like the light color!

Everyone would rather have a TA that is easily passable. I didn't chose this "Focus Plus" thing, or the AIP's: this MEC did. There is no path that lets us crap on the NMB by reneging on a substantial number of AIP's (if any), and still get released for a strike. This is their process, their plan, and their timeframe. They just wasted the last few weeks of it, and we're weeks away from the NMB staying put during elections (the Presidential elections, and ours, because they evidently don't mediate through changes in power). Passable or not, they need to produce, we need to direct. It's very simple.

So the alternatives aren't to hang out until we get a nice TA we all like, or vote on a marginal TA. It's vote on what they've been doing for a year, or wait years for them to do something else.

Still, I think that there is a TA that's easily passable available to, even with the so-so AIP's. I think the majority expects results, and I think the guys we want to pre-empt the result of a vote are doing so because they just can't accept that the majority will, in fact, express itself in a vote.

If the MEC does their job.
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tanker1497
It's simple. We elect our reps, who comprise the MEC. A section 6 negotiation ends in that body voting a TA up or down (most of the time) If it's up, to memrat it goes. If we don't let this process work, why even have an MEC? Make all contract items, from MOU up thru section 6 negotiations memrat only.
The piece you're missing is that we faithfully try to direct our MEC via polling and surveys, when that input actually drives the process. 12 men can agree to anything among themselves, but that doesn't prove that they are actually doing the work of the group.

Otherwise, the best way to settle it is a vote.

Recalls are an imperfect way of doing all of this, and the group gains nothing in the interim, so a vote is best. There is nothing to fear from a vote, is there?
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Klondike Bear
So you are pushing hard for a vote. Are you saying that a TA that gets voted down 65% is better than not getting to vote and continue to negotiate? Say we do get another substandard TA and we vote it down what is your path forward from that?

What I see if that happens is recalls, new NC and another year of infighting.
Right now, there is no real plan. These guys are frozen solid. They may or may not let the NC reach a TA. If they try to go back on their own AIP's, we're probably done for a long time, and there is no way to get released to strike from a point where you're way above the industry in your asks, and not negotiating.

On the other hand, a 65% no lets you go back in, specify what needs to be changed, and get a deal. That's a serious, serious hammer. The vote results give you a place to start from. I can't see how a leader fears a vote, if they're confident that they have the true pulse of the group.

I think these guys are scared because they have the pulse of the group, but refuse to accept the readings. They also have a very tight read on the supporters that keep them elected, and they're not in agreement. There is a conflict of interest at play.

I had two of the 12 tell me directly that for the most part, the group is where it always is, since the AIP's: the middle of the bell-curve asks questions, and waits for a vote (that's your majority, right there), one small-end of the curve wants to take the company's offer yesterday, and the other small-end has already decided to vote no, so they don't want a vote.
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:19 AM
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SinkR8 - change the Policy Manual before you demand the MEC go violating it (again).
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:20 AM
  #15  
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Thanks for the reply. One more question. What do you see happening if the NC get a TA but it gets voted down by the 12 at the MEC?
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Klondike Bear
Thanks for the reply. One more question. What do you see happening if the NC get a TA but it gets voted down by the 12 at the MEC?
retro pay = poof, for starters.
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Klondike Bear
Thanks for the reply. One more question. What do you see happening if the NC get a TA but it gets voted down by the 12 at the MEC?
I haven't considered that, because the 12 own the NC.
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
Right now, there is no real plan. These guys are frozen solid. They may or may not let the NC reach a TA. If they try to go back on their own AIP's, we're probably done for a long time, and there is no way to get released to strike from a point where you're way above the industry in your asks, and not negotiating.

On the other hand, a 65% no lets you go back in, specify what needs to be changed, and get a deal. That's a serious, serious hammer. The vote results give you a place to start from. I can't see how a leader fears a vote, if they're confident that they have the true pulse of the group.

I think these guys are scared because they have the pulse of the group, but refuse to accept the readings. They also have a very tight read on the supporters that keep them elected, and they're not in agreement. There is a conflict of interest at play.

I had two of the 12 tell me directly that for the most part, the group is where it always is, since the AIP's: the middle of the bell-curve asks questions, and waits for a vote (that's your majority, right there), one small-end of the curve wants to take the company's offer yesterday, and the other small-end has already decided to vote no, so they don't want a vote.
You keep saying fear the vote. That is your theory alone. You want to have a vote to see where the whole group stands and use as a mid- stream correction when voted down. Hell, let's vote on each individual AIP and get real customer feedback in real time.
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:46 AM
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SinkR8 - change the Policy Manual before you demand the MEC go violating it (again).
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Old 09-02-2016 | 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Wuzatforus
SinkR8 - change the Policy Manual before you demand the MEC go violating it (again).
I can't help but think you're making a point.

What is it Lassie?! Is someone hurt at the mine?
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