The Majority IS.
09-02-2016 | 07:30 AM
#1
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The Majority IS.
The majority is. It just is. It's where it wants to be, and does what it wants to do. It's composed of 13,400 that make up their own minds, however they see fit. It swings however it wants to, and the best way to gauge it is data, and polling. And when I say polling, I mean that there are plenty of excellent ways to know where the majority is, but nothing beats an actual vote.
There are posters here that try to alter, convince, cajole, charm, and steer the majority, and that is fair. But people here do not speak for it, not matter how truthful or cynical their intentions are.
Who made this poster the spokesperson for the majority? No one.
Now, the MEC has the tools to know where the group is, and the best tool is a vote. In the absence of a vote, the surveys play a large part, and the polling is the best way to judge current sentiment. Even when you tinker with (the latest polling tries to force us to think mostly about strike and retirement), even then, the pilots get to express themselves. And yet, some of the MEC doesn't use the tools they have, relying instead on direct contact.
The amount of direct contact is incredibly small, and it doesn't say what the 12 publicly claim. It's so small in fact that if you take the most frequent posters on chitchat, APC, and fb, not even all of those guys are writing. The only thing that makes that number a little bigger is that half of the writers are following a template, which always ends with "...or we will need a new CBA". I said previously that it was a few hundred people + the 12 that are driving this entire show, thinking that they know what's best for you, me, and everyone else. That may be too high. If the reports from the C44 meetings are true, and the Admin and the 7 are using polling data, and the others are favoring e-mails instead, they literally have no claim to be speaking for the Delta pilots.
But look at how often they use the term majority in their communications. All of them. Sounds to me like a bunch of men trying to convince themselves.
The majority can speak for itself, if it's allowed to.
The majority MUST be allowed to speak for itself.
There are posters here that try to alter, convince, cajole, charm, and steer the majority, and that is fair. But people here do not speak for it, not matter how truthful or cynical their intentions are.
...the majority's direction and seeking improvements to the AIPs... bypass the MEC majority, and take his case directly to the pilot group.
He is working with alpa's pollster (the same guy we've been paying since Moak) to massage the data. (Lies, damn lies, and statistics.) It will all be presented in closed session; the majority will be unable to publicly refute it. The he will neuter the majority by claiming he has polling data to support these pending concessions.
Next he'll drag the MEC majority through the mud by activating [xxx, xxx, xxx ], and all the former "black polo shirt" heavies and ALPA lifers. It will be an epic and ill-advised smear campaign.
He is working with alpa's pollster (the same guy we've been paying since Moak) to massage the data. (Lies, damn lies, and statistics.) It will all be presented in closed session; the majority will be unable to publicly refute it. The he will neuter the majority by claiming he has polling data to support these pending concessions.
Next he'll drag the MEC majority through the mud by activating [xxx, xxx, xxx ], and all the former "black polo shirt" heavies and ALPA lifers. It will be an epic and ill-advised smear campaign.
Now, the MEC has the tools to know where the group is, and the best tool is a vote. In the absence of a vote, the surveys play a large part, and the polling is the best way to judge current sentiment. Even when you tinker with (the latest polling tries to force us to think mostly about strike and retirement), even then, the pilots get to express themselves. And yet, some of the MEC doesn't use the tools they have, relying instead on direct contact.
The amount of direct contact is incredibly small, and it doesn't say what the 12 publicly claim. It's so small in fact that if you take the most frequent posters on chitchat, APC, and fb, not even all of those guys are writing. The only thing that makes that number a little bigger is that half of the writers are following a template, which always ends with "...or we will need a new CBA". I said previously that it was a few hundred people + the 12 that are driving this entire show, thinking that they know what's best for you, me, and everyone else. That may be too high. If the reports from the C44 meetings are true, and the Admin and the 7 are using polling data, and the others are favoring e-mails instead, they literally have no claim to be speaking for the Delta pilots.
But look at how often they use the term majority in their communications. All of them. Sounds to me like a bunch of men trying to convince themselves.
The majority can speak for itself, if it's allowed to.
The majority MUST be allowed to speak for itself.
09-02-2016 | 07:34 AM
#2
Bus driver
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Likes: 16
11 to 8 last time Sink, I didn't want to vote No, but had to. Such is life in a democratic body. 12 to 7 this time, hope I don't have to vote unless it's worth voting yes. Such is life in a democratic body. I don't remember reading a post like this from you during last years adventure. We all debate here, but the MEC is our spokes person. They spoke last year, and will again this time.
09-02-2016 | 07:56 AM
#4
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11 to 8 last time Sink, I didn't want to vote No, but had to. Such is life in a democratic body. 12 to 7 this time, hope I don't have to vote unless it's worth voting yes. Such is life in a democratic body. I don't remember reading a post like this from you during last years adventure. We all debate here, but the MEC is our spokes person. They spoke last year, and will again this time.
In last year's adventure, the MEC delivered a product, the pilots voted. No AIP's were released, and no majority of the MEC destroyed the democratic process within the body.
In last year's adventure, people like PD claimed to be the majority, and in C2012 they did as well. The very contract that people say is the bedrock that will let them wait until hell freezes over (or their PS dwindles) argued violently over it. C2K was very controversial as well. But in each case, we debated an actual TA, to ask ourselves whether the MEC had or had not gotten the majority right.
Every previous MEC had the gumption to put their product up for a vote.
09-02-2016 | 08:25 AM
#5
Bus driver
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
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Hi Tanker,
In last year's adventure, the MEC delivered a product, the pilots voted. No AIP's were released, and no majority of the MEC destroyed the democratic process within the body.
In last year's adventure, people like PD claimed to be the majority, and in C2012 they did as well. The very contract that people say is the bedrock that will let them wait until hell freezes over (or their PS dwindles) argued violently over it. C2K was very controversial as well. But in each case, we debated an actual TA, to ask ourselves whether the MEC had or had not gotten the majority right.
Every previous MEC had the gumption to put their product up for a vote.
In last year's adventure, the MEC delivered a product, the pilots voted. No AIP's were released, and no majority of the MEC destroyed the democratic process within the body.
In last year's adventure, people like PD claimed to be the majority, and in C2012 they did as well. The very contract that people say is the bedrock that will let them wait until hell freezes over (or their PS dwindles) argued violently over it. C2K was very controversial as well. But in each case, we debated an actual TA, to ask ourselves whether the MEC had or had not gotten the majority right.
Every previous MEC had the gumption to put their product up for a vote.
09-02-2016 | 08:42 AM
#6
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I you think the MEC's job is to negotiate agreements that improve our conditions, and let us decide for ourselves whether the results are goid enough, then no, this MEC hasn't done their job.
If you think being the majority OF THE MEC that managed the negotiating process, including the AIP's, requires taking ownership of your own work, then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to make decisions after debate and discussion with all other councils via their rep then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to present a credible, unified group in negotiations, with clear objectives, and clear authority, then no, they haven't done their job.
09-02-2016 | 08:42 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 637
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From: Stretch DC-9 Gear Slinger
So you are pushing hard for a vote. Are you saying that a TA that gets voted down 65% is better than not getting to vote and continue to negotiate? Say we do get another substandard TA and we vote it down what is your path forward from that?
What I see if that happens is recalls, new NC and another year of infighting.
What I see if that happens is recalls, new NC and another year of infighting.
09-02-2016 | 08:47 AM
#8
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
I'd rather get a TA that is easily passable rather than just something to vote on. Anyone can shove a half-arsed product out there and tell you it's the best you're going to get...
I can write in light colors, too!!
I can write in light colors, too!!
09-02-2016 | 08:49 AM
#9
Bus driver
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
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[QUOTE=Sink r8;2193881]An interesting twist of logic you're making there: letting the majority affirm itself is shirking your duties, but usurping our voices is doing your job?
I you think the MEC's job is to negotiate agreements that improve our conditions, and let us decide for ourselves whether the results are goid enough, then no, this MEC hasn't done their job.
If you think being in the majority that managed the negotiating process, including the AIP's, requires taking ownership of your own work, then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to make decisions after debate and discussion with all other councils via their rep then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to present a credible, unified group in negotiations, with clear objectives, and clear authority, then no, they haven't
It's simple. We elect our reps, who comprise the MEC. A section 6 negotiation ends in that body voting a TA up or down (most of the time) If it's up, to memrat it goes. If we don't let this process work, why even have an MEC? Make all contract items, from MOU up thru section 6 negotiations memrat only.
I you think the MEC's job is to negotiate agreements that improve our conditions, and let us decide for ourselves whether the results are goid enough, then no, this MEC hasn't done their job.
If you think being in the majority that managed the negotiating process, including the AIP's, requires taking ownership of your own work, then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to make decisions after debate and discussion with all other councils via their rep then no, they haven't done their job.
If you think their job is to present a credible, unified group in negotiations, with clear objectives, and clear authority, then no, they haven't
It's simple. We elect our reps, who comprise the MEC. A section 6 negotiation ends in that body voting a TA up or down (most of the time) If it's up, to memrat it goes. If we don't let this process work, why even have an MEC? Make all contract items, from MOU up thru section 6 negotiations memrat only.
09-02-2016 | 08:55 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
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The majority is. It just is. It's where it wants to be, and does what it wants to do. It's composed of 13,400 that make up their own minds, however they see fit. It swings however it wants to, and the best way to gauge it is data, and polling. And when I say polling, I mean that there are plenty of excellent ways to know where the majority is, but nothing beats an actual vote.
There are posters here that try to alter, convince, cajole, charm, and steer the majority, and that is fair. But people here do not speak for it, not matter how truthful or cynical their intentions are.
Who made this poster the spokesperson for the majority? No one.
Now, the MEC has the tools to know where the group is, and the best tool is a vote. In the absence of a vote, the surveys play a large part, and the polling is the best way to judge current sentiment. Even when you tinker with (the latest polling tries to force us to think mostly about strike and retirement), even then, the pilots get to express themselves. And yet, some of the MEC doesn't use the tools they have, relying instead on direct contact.
The amount of direct contact is incredibly small, and it doesn't say what the 12 publicly claim. It's so small in fact that if you take the most frequent posters on chitchat, APC, and fb, not even all of those guys are writing. The only thing that makes that number a little bigger is that half of the writers are following a template, which always ends with "...or we will need a new CBA". I said previously that it was a few hundred people + the 12 that are driving this entire show, thinking that they know what's best for you, me, and everyone else. That may be too high. If the reports from the C44 meetings are true, and the Admin and the 7 are using polling data, and the others are favoring e-mails instead, they literally have no claim to be speaking for the Delta pilots.
But look at how often they use the term majority in their communications. All of them. Sounds to me like a bunch of men trying to convince themselves.
The majority can speak for itself, if it's allowed to.
The majority MUST be allowed to speak for itself.
There are posters here that try to alter, convince, cajole, charm, and steer the majority, and that is fair. But people here do not speak for it, not matter how truthful or cynical their intentions are.
Who made this poster the spokesperson for the majority? No one.
Now, the MEC has the tools to know where the group is, and the best tool is a vote. In the absence of a vote, the surveys play a large part, and the polling is the best way to judge current sentiment. Even when you tinker with (the latest polling tries to force us to think mostly about strike and retirement), even then, the pilots get to express themselves. And yet, some of the MEC doesn't use the tools they have, relying instead on direct contact.
The amount of direct contact is incredibly small, and it doesn't say what the 12 publicly claim. It's so small in fact that if you take the most frequent posters on chitchat, APC, and fb, not even all of those guys are writing. The only thing that makes that number a little bigger is that half of the writers are following a template, which always ends with "...or we will need a new CBA". I said previously that it was a few hundred people + the 12 that are driving this entire show, thinking that they know what's best for you, me, and everyone else. That may be too high. If the reports from the C44 meetings are true, and the Admin and the 7 are using polling data, and the others are favoring e-mails instead, they literally have no claim to be speaking for the Delta pilots.
But look at how often they use the term majority in their communications. All of them. Sounds to me like a bunch of men trying to convince themselves.
The majority can speak for itself, if it's allowed to.
The majority MUST be allowed to speak for itself.
We, pilots, are confident we are always right even if we are unencumbered by any experience actually doing something as difficult as leading pilots. Lots of us never imagined we would be dependent on a trade union for our very livelihoods and far too many seem anxious to blame our union for anything and everything that ails us. It is much easier than looking in the mirror.
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