Originally Posted by notEnuf

There are some real sampling issues with the polling. The wife is a marketing research analyst and sees this all the time. There are also question construction issues. Bias is impossible to avoid in questioning, but it should be minimized by not asking leading questions and the use of open ended questions. Coding and data analysis is also some what subjective when open ended questions are used. All this said, if done right it has a statistical correlation to the larger group. The margin for error can only be quantified on direct A or B type answers.

All of this could be done right with a professional poll, my doubts are around the construction of the questions, the sampling, and the fiduciary relationship of a long term vendor. The wife has been asked several time to soften language in her report by an account executive who doesn't want to upset a client. She quit a job after hearing from a VP, "the client has already decided X, they're just looking for data to support that decision." TIFWIW

I haven't been polled so I couldn't say what I think of DALPA polling.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The thing I find interesting is most pilots I hear talking want at least UAL in pay. When told that the companies current table position is 2 1/2% above UAL they get a funny look and say really?

Originally Posted by JamesBond

They are at the top of their pay scales way sooner in their career than we are. TVM and all. They win on this one.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

There are some real sampling issues with the polling. The wife is a marketing research analyst and sees this all the time. There are also question construction issues. Bias is impossible to avoid in questioning, but it should be minimized by not asking leading questions and the use of open ended questions. Coding and data analysis is also some what subjective when open ended questions are used. All this said, if done right it has a statistical correlation to the larger group. The margin for error can only be quantified on direct A or B type answers.

All of this could be done right with a professional poll, my doubts are around the construction of the questions, the sampling, and the fiduciary relationship of a long term vendor. The wife has been asked several time to soften language in her report by an account executive who doesn't want to upset a client. She quit a job after hearing from a VP, "the client has already decided X, they're just looking for data to support that decision." TIFWIW

I haven't been polled so I couldn't say what I think of DALPA polling.

Originally Posted by gzsg

UAL is 19% above the 330 and 767-400.

And PS self funding is still in management's position. Plus more 76 seat jets. Severe JV scope concessions without any meaningful and immediate penalties.

Plus aip concessions.

Cost neutral and self funding.

Ur clueless.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I was speaking strickly about payrates and what pilots believe about those rates. I notice you often compare UAL's rates with ours in many posts yourself. Strangely you always use only the A330/767-400 rate. UAL has exactly 16 airframes in that category. Here is a better sample across the fleets. UAL actual verses DAL management current position.

A319 UA 236 DL 244
A320 UA 246. DL 244
737-9 UA 246. DL 255
737-8. UA 246. DL 254
767-3. UA 255. DL 266
A330/764 UA 305 DL 299
UA 757 246 DL 266
UA777. 305. DL 317

The Delta rates are table positions and I expect them to be higher in the TA. The largest cross fleets are the 737-8/9 with UAL having 260.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I was speaking strickly about payrates and what pilots believe about those rates. I notice you often compare UAL's rates with ours in many posts yourself. Strangely you always use only the A330/767-400 rate. UAL has exactly 16 airframes in that category. Here is a better sample across the fleets. UAL actual verses DAL management current position.

A319 UA 236 DL 244
A320 UA 246. DL 244
737-9 UA 246. DL 255
737-8. UA 246. DL 254
767-3. UA 255. DL 266
A330/764 UA 305 DL 299
UA 757 246 DL 266
UA777. 305. DL 317

The Delta rates are table positions and I expect them to be higher in the TA. The largest cross fleets are the 737-8/9 with UAL having 260.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I was speaking strickly about payrates and what pilots believe about those rates. I notice you often compare UAL's rates with ours in many posts yourself. Strangely you always use only the A330/767-400 rate. UAL has exactly 16 airframes in that category. Here is a better sample across the fleets. UAL actual verses DAL management current position.

A319 UA 236 DL 244
A320 UA 246. DL 244
737-9 UA 246. DL 255
737-8. UA 246. DL 254
767-3. UA 255. DL 266
A330/764 UA 305 DL 299
UA 757 246 DL 266
UA777. 305. DL 317

The Delta rates are table positions and I expect them to be higher in the TA. The largest cross fleets are the 737-8/9 with UAL having 260.

Originally Posted by Tanker1497

74 777s at UAL, to go with 22 Whales.

18 to with 9 for us. Can't wait to see what Section 1 looks like for those higher pay rates. A lot less of us will be seeing those aircraft here than at UAL.