gzsg

Sounds to me like you are counting profit sharing we already have.

I'm talking about the new agreement.

JV scope immediately in compliance.

Allowing convergence to block hours.

$300 million a year and beyond imagination going forward 10 years. Well over $1 Billion per year.

50 more 76 seat jets to DCI.

$300 million per year.

Aips

$200 million per year.

Total $800 million per year.

Cost neutral

Self funding

Professor

You are trying to willfully misinform people. That does not help any of us.

"$300 million a year and beyond imagination going forward 10 years. Well over $1 Billion per year."

what does this mean? how do you arrive at this figure? How would this be directly taken from our contract?

"50 more 76 seat jets to DCI."

If this comes with a disproportionate reduction in 50 seat airplanes, and increase in mainline capacity and a GUARANTEE that more mainline jobs happen...WHY would we not take that exchange? Please be specific on why no more 76 seat jets is good but no more mainline seats=bad.

"AIPs"

Valued around $675million + according to the C44 LEC meeting. Again show math and justification for why why cost us and aren't a benefit.

Throwing out unsubstantiated memes and bullet points seem to be what you do.

But maybe you are correct. If you can show us how you are correct, please do.


WRT JV compliance, they are currently in compliance and a block hour agreement would bring in 757 flying which is not currently accounted for because the agreement only covers dual aisle EASK's. But I don't know what this TA's JV language looks like and i'm guessing you don't either?

Ok sir, you have the floor.

Tanker1497

No, what I get out of the chart is the fact that sailing thinks that the only section that really matters is 3. And only compares us to UAL, not UPS and FDX. And based on our small number of widebody aircraft, compared to UAL and AA, that Section 1 will be very important.

Professor

You aren't going to magically make NB aircraft pay industry WB rates. No airline ever is going to pull that off.

But remember too that we have 25 330 NEO's coming and 25 A350's with a net gain, minus 9 747's on line now, will be 41 airframes.

Thats a pretty substantial gain in top end seats at the airline. Hopefully there are more wide bodies to come, especially as the PAC restructures.

The reality is that we need to look at the whole TA, Sec 1 especially.

Why don't we stop sniping at each other until we have real facts.

notEnuf

Here's a real fact. We are buying 12 A350-1000s to add to the Virgin all wide-body fleet of 39 aircraft. With half ownership that's 25 wide bodies we will never operate.

Professor

How are we buying them aircraft?

They are a different flag carrier.

If you constantly are focused on your neighbors' lawns you are never going to take care of your own.

So once again, how does that have anything to do with our operation? The JV is structured so BOTH VA and Delta pilots benefit.

Are you saying that we should take their jobs to enrich ours? Are you saying we should bludgeon our way around the industry so we alone can benefit?

How much additional domestic flying are we going to gain from connecting those passengers once they hit US shores? How many pilot jobs is that?

Please let me know how we should operate our JV's more specifically.
Because to me it sounds like you just want all the flying no matter if it makes money, makes sense or creates real jobs for Delta pilots.

Tanker1497

Not expecting NB to pay WB, just pointing out that section 3 is just part of the puzzle. Good to get those frames, for sure. And yes, we will all look at the facts when we have. I don't look at this as sniping, it's good to get thoughts on both sides from a mix of people.

Professor

Calling out sailing for only caring about a single section is baiting I think, at the very least.

Anyway, I think we all need to start comparing apples to apples.

We are a narrow body and wide body network carrier. I would love to make what the average FedEx pilot does...but that aggregate is almost entirely wide bodies. So its very unlikely we ever will.

This is the downside of better and better low end scope / macroeconomic shifts.

The more jobs added at the bottom the lower the aggregate pay will be for us. I'm sure someone here will say that the C100 should pay 777 rates. But if you do I will ignore you because you are alone in the entire airline industry.

Let's hope the company and NC make some magic happen this week for all of us.

JamesBond

Source. Proof. Waiting.

notEnuf

You are absolutely naïve if you think that the Delta management team that bought and turned around VA with an updated fleet plan and transformed the route structure from a predominately Asia to a predominately Europe and Atlantic model had nothing to do with the purchasing of the new fleet.

This union is a Joint Venture which Delta own 3/4 of. All of Delta plus half of VA. I don't mind the business plan so long as the flying done in lieu of Delta still pays Delta pilots handsomely via profit sharing. I have no control over the direction of the business, in fact this practice will continue to expand because of its proven profitability. Those JVs will help Delta's profits but will limit Delta pilot jobs. Maybe by the 1000s gzsg is talking about.

As far as proof, I can offer GOL SEC filings and transcripts that describe the same strategy. VA was the initial equity + JV virtual merger and the model for GOL, Aeromexico etc. Past statements from RA and EB speak to the preferred expansion method over organic growth. These companies are being run as one. VA is privately held so no disclosure is required by the SEC. All this information has come out from time to time in investor meetings and presentations.

Here's the JV + equity "virtual merger" plan.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d.../image_017.jpg

Word search this document for the word Delta.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...rm20f_2015.htm