tunes

and they are offering industry standard pay and a lot of QOL cuts for those RJs...no thanks.

gloopy

I have spoken? Our current CBA sets the allowable limit of outsourced DC-9 sized RJ's", I didn't set it. If I did it would be a LOT lower believe me.

See, the thing is, if marketing sees a demand for 50 more of them, we can fly them. We already have rates for them, and honestly those rates are pretty low. Hardly bank breakers, even if we weren't making profits so off the charts Al Gore would need a sky crane bucket to point them out.

The 50's are going to shrink regardless in the coming years. There is no one to fly them, and no infrastructure to get anyone to fly them. Even if there were, the cost has gone up so insanely that they're still not going to have adequate supply, even IF they lower the mins a few hundred hours. Which, if they do that, will only cannibalize their fledgling instructor ranks which they don't have enough of. Even if they can somehow print pilots out of thin air like they do money, there's still no rational justification for keeping anywhere near the current levels of 50's around in the coming years.

Yet we should give up lasting scope relief for far more treacherous outsourced aircraft? Nope. That shouldn't just be a "line in the sand" it should be a wall on a mountaintop in front of a moat guarded by razor wire, pill boxes and drones.

I realize that there may be a defined economic "value" to allowing this, and I'm perfectly fine with subtracting that off the balance sheet. No more "bargaining credits" for allowing more DC-9 sized RJ's if I have anything to say about it. And I'm not alone. This is an absolute poison pill issue.

gloopy

I'd bet that if we operated them at the mainline, with our current rates (especially once adjusted for C15, but even if not) we'd have a line out the door from current type qualified pilots wanting to come over and fly them. I don't think C scale means what you think it means. You think those rates are low, go to a regional and fly them with no mainline number and regional work rules. We would get all the pilots we wanted for a long time if we flew those planes here under current book.

We're always going to want more pay (duh) so according to your logic, we should always give up more large RJ's. If that is your logic, then its reasonable to assume at some point (probably the next contract) you will be in favor of even more of them (as long as we get paid lol!) and eventually higher weights/larger seat counts.

Nope. They already have an absolutely massive "armada" (10 points to Gryffindor for who coined that little gem) of RJ's and ultra large RJ's flying around at outsourced providers. That number needs to be reduced, not increased.

trustbutverify

Oh boy! I'm getting educated by Dharma! Let me get my pen and paper...

I saw that note in the contract. Until we see the 223rd 76 seater (which we haven't) AND the company maintains the 50 seat jet count at, not below 125 that note only goes to prove my point. The company has been tracking well BELOW the permitted 50 seater limit while they apparently NEED more RJ lift. So maybe you'd like to point out exactly what I'm wrong about because as far as I can tell, you missed the mark with your post.

trustbutverify

Yep, go ahead and google "losing" while you're at it.

For a guy who beats the drum about backing up a position with data, you're failing miserably.

Dharma

Here's what you wrote, "Heck, if Delta wanted to have more than the PWA allowable 50's, they could and would do that as well if it made sense for the company's business plan." and it is wrong.

Cogf16

Don't really follow your "response" to my post. offering.... for those RJ's??? what about us retaining JV, PS and increases elsewhere?

Cogf16

Think about what you are saying. I think you are blinded by your desire to just say no to anything scope related. Do you REALLY think Delta pilots would want to fly a 76 seat RJ for a C scale???? No effing way. And that makes the entry level position at Delta the right seat of an RJ. Good luck getting top level pilots to come here.

Really, you need to take emotion out and look at this deal objectively. We "trade" 125 Rj's for 50, and have Block hour protections. C2012 had a similar, if not worse deal and it resulted in big BH gains for Delta pilots. I say again, what Delta pilot wants to fly a 76 seat RJ when a good percentage of newhires now are getting 737 and 7ER slots.

Cogf16

No chance we'd have "a line out the door" to fly right seat of an RJ. what would it pay, 90 bucks an hour?

And you make quite a leap with my "logic" I make judgments on each individual part of a potential deal. this one seems reasonable to me if it "unlocks" status quo PS or JV, not to mention full retro. You're just dying to say NO, aren't you?

tunes

so you are saying we should be happy because we get to keep what we currently have?