A "few" commuters? Let me ask you this: Who is going to bid VB/TDY? I'll answer: All most all if not all commuters. Why would a guy living in base bid one? This will be a huge boon to all 767 and smaller commuters. I don't see bigger aircraft being part of a VB.

The great thing about this is.............we (the union) can stop/call a halt/end this if we don't like it! As a non commuter (was one for quite awhile) I'm all for giving it a shot and seeing how it works out. This could be a huge QOL improvement for all commuters. Yes it's going to cut down on DH and thus require less pilots to be hired but as someone mentioned, with the current hiring and retirements coming up, it won't even be felt.

Denny

Almost all commuters may bid a VB, but surely they won't all get it, right? How is it a boon to ALL commuters? It remains to be seen if the seniority many of the VBers achieve in their VBs makes the shift worthwhile. It's not even clear to me that bidders will be able to set a percentage floor for seniority. A 30% pilot could end up 99% in the VB if protections aren't provided. And those commuters who aren't selected to VB will be left with a smaller bid package in their existing base.

To your last point, I'm not sure the hiring rate affects one's progression from NB to WB although it may improve QOL for those who can't hold WB at the seniority they require. Retirements naturally help progression to WB, but since they don't really accelerate much during this contract, that argument is premature. I think the effect of VBs (and ALV widening) will indeed be felt by many.

My hunch is that getting paid UAL's hourly rate (well below the earnings of FedEx and UPS) is a carrot big enough to disregard these sticks, FWIW.

>>Who is going to bid VB/TDY? I'll answer: All most all if not all commuters. Why would a guy living in base bid one? <<

Umm. Let's see. We don't know what the exact plans for VB are, but since you asked, here's a possible scenario:

--DAL announces a 757 VB in MCO for Jan/Feb/Mar. (there's a star right about there in the ALPA VB info-graphic too!)
--The MCO commuters celebrate, and bid for the VB.
--Unfortunately for the Florida crowd, several senior pilots living in MSP (or CVG..?) bid and hold the MCO VB, allowing them to become snowbirds at the company's expense.
--This comes at the expense of MCO commuters who will no longer even be able to get the occasional layover at home.
--It also comes at the expense of everyone below the 757, since it's a productivity give so the company will require less pilots.

No guarantee that this is how it will will work, but no guarantee it's NOT either. If the company asked for it there was a reason, and it probably wasn't to INcrease their labor costs. Not saying that VB might not be a smokin' deal for some of us (like the guys from MSP and CVG in the above scenario), but overall it's net loss (productivity concession) for the pilot group.

So, how about we see how it plays out. If it sucks, we let it die.

Don't think I said going from NB to WB affects hiring rates. That doesn't make much sense. What will affect hiring rates negatively is the loss of DH (credit time). But with the amount of hiring Delta is doing now and for the foreseeable future due to new aircraft and retirements, I don't think it will be noticeable at all. I think VBs certainly will affect many and on many of those the affect will be positive. We are just going to have to see how the trial period goes (assuming this TA passes). If it doesn't go well, it gets pulled down. Easy Peasy!:)

Denny

Yes, this could happen. I'll bet it will be rare. That in base guy is giving up all his commute time for free and all the extra time at home. Probably at least a couple of days a month and the added stress of commuting even if it is on positive space.

Denny

So then those that commute TO MSP will hold better in base trips.

no. the block hours come out of where the pilots come from to my understanding.

?, reference please.

Don't think I agree with this. Some block hours will come out but each VB will require a certain amount of reserve coverage won't it? If so, this would mean more manning pulled out than lines of time associated with that manning. At least that's my thinking. It's all based on a reserve need at the VB.

Denny