I believe it saved their retirement. The bankruptcy filing later was administrative not economic. The filings post 911 were for survival and even then it was touch and go. American had 5 billion in cash when they filed and the industry was on the uptick. It was purely to try and break the unions. They also still had full access to the capital markets unlike airlines post 911.

 

According to Salary.com the median salary for an executive assistant in the Washington DC area is close to $70,000 per year plus bonus and benefits. At the 90th percentile that number grows to over $80,000 plus bonuses and benefits. That number grows to a median over $80,000 for an executive assistant to a CEO and to about $110,000 for those in the 90th percentile.

Yes, there are pilots making under $50,000 per year...but you're talking about 1st and 2nd year regional FOs. Washington DC isn't cheap. Do you know how much rent for a 1 bedroom apartment there is? You probably need at least $70-75k per year to live ok and rent a 1 bedroom apartment in the city.

Is the compensation of union employees sometimes higher than it should be? Probably. But, it's not the norm. A union can't underpay it's own employees and expect the management of their members to bend over and pay you as much as possible. Most union employees are actually part of a union, OPEIU.

 

Sooo..... What does it cost to live in NYC?

 

it was the manner of their retirement benefits structure that 'saved' (the earned benefit) the APA pilots plan.

unlike their alpa counterparts.

 

Or perhaps it was the plan being basically fully funded. There were a bunch of other retirement plans besides the pilots at AMR. None were terminated or in real danger of termination. Nine were even close to a distress funding situation and certainly did not meet the "but for test" required by the courts. Quite different then the situation at Delta.

 

again, you are missing the gist of the point....their retirement was 'fully' funded precisely because of the manner in which the benefit was structured.

if my memory is correct, there is reference to this in flying the line....it was one wedge issue that drove the American pilots from alpa.....something about alpa being 'crazy' for putting all the retirement eggs in one basket.

 

I'm well aware of the artificially inflated prices in that cesspool of corruption. Funny thing is, we (ALPA) have tons of pilots based there too. And NYC. And LA. And SEA. And BOS. And every other high cost area.

Again, I don't care if some Mad Man's Madison Avenue exec assistant makes a million dollars a year. Good for him/her! Same for 6 figure doormen, bellhops, etc. But ALPA has no business paying general office assistants that until and unless the many many THOUSANDS of air line pilots they represent are making an appropriate amount *more* than that commensurate with their training, responsibilities, liabilities and skill set. That's right up there with $80K oil paintings.

And even if that is simply what the location commands (it's not...don't tell me every entry level clerical job there makes that, and if they don't they walk...and we all know how drastically distorted "average/medium stats can be) then those positions should first be offered to ALPA members.

Right now there is, in general, pretty good advancement opportunities in the industry. That will change at some point, and until very recently it wasn't the case at all. Until the latest wave, we had many thousands of career FO's and even ALPA pilots furloughed for years. All that time, Herndon* was living in an entire different reality, including the issue in question.



*this doesn't mean DPA/IBT or anyone else wouldn't be just as detached; odds are in due time they all would be but that's not the point.

 

LAX parking lot is home away from home for airline workers
Buffeted by their industry's turbulence, airline employees save money by living part time in a motor home colony at LAX.
July 20, 2009|Dan Weikel

For about 15 days a month, Alaska Airlines pilot Jim Lancaster lives in a motor home in Parking Lot B near the southernmost runway at Los Angeles International Airport.
Every four minutes, a jetliner or turboprop roars in -- 500 feet above his front door -- for a landing. The noise is so loud it forces Lancaster to pause during conversations. But he doesn't mind. Lancaster puts up with the smell of jet fuel and screaming engines to save time and money.
The 60-year-old aviator's primary residence is a cottage he shares with his wife overlooking a quiet bay off Puget Sound in Washington state. Living in Lot B while he's on duty means he doesn't have to rent a Los Angeles apartment with other pilots or spend 12 hours a day commuting to and from the Seattle area.
"As kids we used to ask our parents to take us to the airport to see the planes," Lancaster quipped. "Now I get to live at the airport."

 

Regionally adjusted colas for our base structure would make NYC a whole lot more attractive. Not our problem right? Herndon is expensive but not that expensive. Just saying... if I could have been a custodian for $80,000 a year in the mid 2000s I would have been better off. Did anyone get the jobs available update for that? Regionals were paying less in DC. National is broken the sooner we admit it the sooner we can focus on fixing it (by moving on if necessary). Step one is admitting you have a problem. Then and only then can you progress through the next 11.

 

Nah. All that would end up doing long term is diverting money to higher cost bases. And pilots would still commute. And still live in approach light trailer parks :roll eyes:

Sometimes you just have to spend money to make money.