As for your example of extending a reserve pilot into their regular line days off, what is your point? That contractual provision sucks and has been there for awhile. It isn't a "gray area" any more than a GS or OOB WS is. It is a (crappy) stage of the trip coverage process. I should know. I got that "good deal" myself a couple of months ago.

I live in the real world and I WOULD think that they would do that, because the contract allows them to. That ain't the same as the unknown of VBs. They might be great. They might be awful. Who knows?

My point is nobody ever thought they would do that. You have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. The company is smart, they get 100% out of the contract. I'd rather not let them try with VB. The details are slim. Would we vote this in if instead of getting retro to 1 Jan 16, 18/3/3/4 we instead would receive "a raise that Ed thinks is fair"? Of course not, so why are we signing a blank check when it comes to VB? Sure we can stop payment on the check later on, but there could be some unpleasantness while it all gets sorted out.

Yes I'm lazy at updating my profile and no I don't post much. 10-year regional guy who went to AA during their TA before coming to DL. Currently ATL based -88B who is eligible to vote.

Welcome to the airlines. Every category loses trips all the time to other bases or flat out cancellation. To spin it as a loss of QOL is just whiny. Sorry.

First off...you'd better vote no on this TA (which I assume you will do).

Next you'd better throw your hat in the ring and run for an MEC position (although I'm not sure I will trust you if you do ;))

You'll never know if this happened. Trips are not pulled from some static pool and thrust apon bases...it's not a shell game, because the old shells are completely discarded for new ones. With the option to operate one or more VBs, Carmen will (potentially) create rotations completely differently to reduce SYSTEM credit. We'll certainly hear anecdotes about how great or poorly individuals' schedules will have been impacted. As you state, "in your eyes" the crappy trip you didn't want could be another man's gold. And frankly, cause and effect between VBs and good/bad experience will be difficult to establish for anyone but those who are awarded VB assignments.

IMHO, this is much ado about nothing until we have exercised at least a few iterations of VB. A year gives us time to do that. Truth be told, hiring and retirements could easily mask some downside implications of VBs. The oenus on DALPA (as demanded by the membership) is to evaluate the effects seniority list-wide and provide that data to us for final yea/nay.

Haha.... fair enough. Everybody looks out for #1 right? As I said I have little to no desire to ever do office work ever again. Somehow it has a knack for getting in the way of time with the family, flip-flop wearing, and my golfing.

As always, quality content added to the discussion. :rolleyes:

You're right, I'll never know it happened. I suppose I should just accept ignorance is bliss?

I've already admitted that I am no better at predicting the future than anybody else, it really could be much ado about nothing. But why put myself into that situation? The day the TA ratifies, the MEC could give the company 45 days notice and then I'd know for sure that my QOL wasn't affected by VB.

Apologists keep trying to bring it back to the individual's personal schedule. What about overall efficiency? Does anybody think VB drives a requirement for more hiring? Manpower will be a real issue when we go to negotiate our next contract, why would we gift wrap this little gem and serve it to the company on a silver platter when instead we could get them to pay for it? *shrug*

The same could be said for any new category created under the current PWA. For example, the last AE stated that MSP 717 is a strong possibility as a new category. Since the 717 fleet is not growing, that new category will undoubtedly remove trips from other 717 bases that currently flow through MSP.

In general, I think having more bases and categories creates greater opportunities for us to do the type of flying we prefer in the cities we prefer. Opening bases in new cities creates a lot of overhead that Delta simply won't justify in cities like MCO or DFW. VB bidding is still done in seniority order like a normal AE. If anything the month-to-month VB bidding process honors seniority even more than a traditional AE. Every pilot has a shot at the base in seniority order each bid period, without regard to the timing aspect of AE offerings.

I think we need to see how it works before we start shooting it down.

^^^This^^^

You will never be able to positively identify a lost trip. They change every month. You could claim that you didn't get x, y, or z because of Vb but you couldn't really substantiate it. Also, if they open a vb in a place like dfw or mco, it's gonna go senior right? Wouldn't that mean that more junior in base guys would improve their relative seniority that month?