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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Kill VB (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/98085-kill-vbulletin.html)

JamesBond 11-01-2016 07:56 AM
Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2235690)
What?

You bid something that was a less advantageous deal than your previous position?
Nope. It was better. So tell me how that is a windfall. Or are you still calling "protect essential" in recurrent?

BobZ 11-01-2016 08:09 AM
Better for you..... but not the profession. Yeah.... outside of your vernacular, and vegetation....that's what is generally accepted as a windfall.

Full Definition of windfall
  1. 1 : something (as a tree or fruit) blown down by the wind
  2. 2 : an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage.

brakechatter 11-01-2016 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2235646)
There are "philosophical" seniority violations and then there are "actual" ones. The only one that matters is an actual one, meaning the contract states "senior pilot A gets such and such prior to junior pilot B" and junior pilot B got it anyway due to an error.

A philosophical abrogation is merely an opinion, where a pilots states "I believe that senior pilot A should get xyz even though the contract doesn't call for it."

Should a senior guy get to swap before a junior guy can WS? Maybe....but the contract doesn't call for it, so a junior guy getting a trip via WS before a senior guy gets to swap for is not a contractual violation of seniority, though I've heard more than one claim that it was a seniority violation in their OPINION.

Complete BS. We are talking about a base. A base that will not be available to all pilots. End of story. It is a blatant abrogation of seniority. Period. If it wasn't killable, I would be voting no. Kill it, ASAP.

Dirtdiver 11-01-2016 08:33 AM
If you live in base, there is zero upside to VB for you personally.

What worries me is that adjustments to the test and the pull down decision will be made unilaterally, not by memrat

JamesBond 11-01-2016 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2235710)
Better for you..... but not the profession. Yeah.... outside of your vernacular, and vegetation....that's what is generally accepted as a windfall.

Full Definition of windfall
  1. 1 : something (as a tree or fruit) blown down by the wind
  2. 2 : an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage.
So tell me then what was the windfall part of it? The left seat????????? Is THAT the overriding be all end all? If it is, then why are there FOs at DAL that are senior to me? It certainly wasn't the money, because 767 FOs made more. Had I been able to keep my seat when the payrates went back up, you would be right, but I got bumped, hence no windfall. So what advantage did I gain per definition #2.

Denny Crane 11-01-2016 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by brakechatter (Post 2235722)
Complete BS. We are talking about a base. A base that will not be available to all pilots. End of story. It is a blatant abrogation of seniority. Period. If it wasn't killable, I would be voting no. Kill it, ASAP.
Ok, now I see what angle you are coming at it from. IOW, it's a new base and category, every one should be able to bid it. Of course the problem with that is, it's not a "permanent" category so to speak and that causes problems, hence the VB contractual language used to get around that part of our contract.

Best argument against I have heard so far. Will have to think about it.

Denny

Jughead135 11-01-2016 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver (Post 2235730)
What worries me is that adjustments to the test and the pull down decision will be made unilaterally, not by memrat
Which segues nicely to my, <*cough*>, "favorite" quote from the ATL Roadshow:

Q: Will making the VB provisions permanent be accomplished via MEMRAT?

A: You already are [exercising MEMRAT], by approving this TA.


So, Dirt, I think it's safe to say you are correct....

Denny Crane 11-01-2016 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver (Post 2235730)
If you live in base, there is zero upside to VB for you personally.

What worries me is that adjustments to the test and the pull down decision will be made unilaterally, not by memrat
True...So you know I don't care...:)

Well, if by unilaterally you mean the MEC, I would say yes. But if you mean unilaterally by the MEC Chairman, I'd say he wouldn't want to do that........I know, I know it's been done in the past. Just speculating that it's a fur ball an MEC Chairman could easily avoid.

Denny

JamesBond 11-01-2016 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver (Post 2235730)
If you live in base, there is zero upside to VB for you personally.
Does that make it bad?

Dirtdiver 11-01-2016 09:37 AM
Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2235771)
Does that make it bad?
The flying time will come out of your bid package. How could that be good for you?


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