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Originally Posted by TurbineDriver
(Post 2235574)
VB is absolutely toxic. It's lost jobs. The union posted something showing each adjustment to the contract and how many jobs were added/lost as a result of each adjustment. Something like
Vacation pay increased +6 Reserve SC credit +4 Virtual basing/TDY -55 You guys didn't see that?!?! I can't find it otherwise I would copy and paste it. Someone who can find it please post this for everyone to see. LOST JOBS IS TOXIC. ITS ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED. Denny |
There are "philosophical" seniority violations and then there are "actual" ones. The only one that matters is an actual one, meaning the contract states "senior pilot A gets such and such prior to junior pilot B" and junior pilot B got it anyway due to an error.
A philosophical abrogation is merely an opinion, where a pilots states "I believe that senior pilot A should get xyz even though the contract doesn't call for it." Should a senior guy get to swap before a junior guy can WS? Maybe....but the contract doesn't call for it, so a junior guy getting a trip via WS before a senior guy gets to swap for is not a contractual violation of seniority, though I've heard more than one claim that it was a seniority violation in their OPINION. |
Since the bid package comes out after the vb bid, the trip mix would essentially be created using the vb into the gonkulator. The vb would determine the trip mix and it would be hard to determine exactly what routes dissapeared from what base.
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Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2235554)
It's a good question and no offense taken.
Commuters lose no seniority in commuting. They have made a voluntary choice to use their seniority to enable their commuting lifestyle. VB will remove trips from the bid package which somebody who hasn't bid a VB (both commuters and those who live in domicile) would have had access to. Example: Senior commuter lives in Dallas and uses their seniority to bid double commutable NYC trips. VB established in Tampa. All those late sign-in early sign-out trips that used to do NYC-TPA are now gone to a new hire who just happens to live in Florida and bid the TPA VB. How is that fair? That has most definitely abrogated the seniority system. Your argument is hollow and ridiculous. |
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2235568)
I will give you the point that it might be much ado about nothing, I am certainly no great prognosticator of the future.
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2235568)
But
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Originally Posted by surfnski
(Post 2235586)
If it ends up being a bad deal, can ALPA put out a memo that just says, "nobody bid VB or TDY"? Problem solved? Or does that break some sort of RLA Hurt Feelings law?
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The appropriate heartburn you 'heard'.... was with our cba and its idiotic agreement that blatantly devalued the trade and craft.
Alpa:.....but your honor, a 737 pilot is in fact worth $X.......unless of course that pilot is based in mco......then its $X - 30%. Your windfall came as a result of our cba's stupidity..... and at the expense of every other pilot in the profession. But hey, I'm sure it worked out fine for you. The software and computing horsepower exists to make vb a gain in efficiency......I would at a minimum expect our Cba to extract some part of that in increased compensation. And yes.....retroactively. |
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
(Post 2235646)
Should a senior guy get to swap before a junior guy can WS? Maybe....but the contract doesn't call for it, so a junior guy getting a trip via WS before a senior guy gets to swap for is not a contractual violation of seniority, though I've heard more than one claim that it was a seniority violation in their OPINION.
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Originally Posted by BobZ
(Post 2235673)
The appropriate heartburn you 'heard'.... was with our cba and its idiotic agreement that blatantly devalued the trade and craft.
Alpa:.....but your honor, a 737 pilot is in fact worth $X.......unless of course that pilot is based in mco......then its $X - 30%. Your windfall came as a result of our cba's stupidity..... and at the expense of every other pilot in the profession. But hey, I'm sure it worked out fine for you. The software and computing horsepower exists to make vb a gain in efficiency......I would at a minimum expect our Cba to extract some part of that in increased compensation. And yes.....retroactively. |
What?
You bid something that was a less advantageous deal than your previous position? |
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